In Mormonism the earth IS 10,000 years old...

[_Drifting]

Further, we are not instructed to ignore science if there seems to be a conflict and claim Mormonism is right. Mormonism and science does not conflict. We are taught there is no conflict, that sometimes we simply need to know more of the Gospel or of science in order to know the actual truth.

Mormonism and science are in sharp and irreconcilable conflict. Just because Mormons are taught that there is no conflict does not make it so. Mormons are taught a lot of things that are not true. Many of these teachings have been, and will be, changed when enough people realize how wrong they really are.

The irreconcilable conflicts between science and the basic tenets, doctrines and teachings of Mormonism are described and discussed on this board often. The subject tends to generate long threads because the list of conflicts in extensive. Below are just a few of the threads that have dealt with these conflicts in the last few months:

- ScienceWhopper: Natural History According to Jeffrey Holland

- Mormons want to be a mainstream faith but its based on lies.

- The God Delusion

- Let's Talk Rainbows

Here are just a few of the Mormon beliefs, many directly from scripture and all taught by Mormon prophets, that conflict with science:

1. Global Flood

2. Tower of Babel and Confounding of Language

3. Prayers answered from The throne of Go near Kolob in a time frame of less than 4 years.

4. God and Jesus Christ travel from near Kolob to Earth

5. Kolob itself

6. Anthropomorphic beings suspended motionless in the air (as per Joseph Smith)

7. Claimed Book of Abraham provenance and narrative

8. Claimed Book of Mormon provenance and narrative

8. Adam ondi Ahman (Garden of Eden in Daviss County, MO)

10. No Death before "The Fall"

11. Dark skin color is a curse

12. Earth is no older than 10,000 years

13. The continents of the Eastern and Western Hemispheres separated, and the Atlantic Ocean was formed, less than 6,000 years ago.

The list is much longer but an baker's dozen items should make the point.

When Mormons make the statement that their religion does not conflict with science, I suggest to them (as I am doing to you) that they need to read more about Mormonism, or more about science, or both.

Many Mormons I know (including a few dozen in my extended family) have learned not to make such statements outside of church (and especially not in my presence).

DrW,

It was topics such as the ones you list that the Sunday School teacher informed us to ignore science on if it disagreed with the Church.

[_Drifting]

American Black Bear
Cinnamon Bear
Kermode Bear
Asiatic Black Bear
Baluchistan Bear
Formosan Black Bear
Pakistan Black Bear
Brown Bear Atlas Bear
Bergman's Bear
Blue Bear
Eurasian Brown Bear
European Brown Bear
Gobi Bear
Grizzly Bear
Himalayan Brown Bear
Hokkaido Brown Bear
Kamchatka Brown Bear
Kodiak Bear
Marsican Brown Bear (critically endangered)
Mexican Grizzly Bear
Siberian Brown Bear
Syrian Brown Bear
Giant Panda
Qinling Panda
Sloth Bear
Sri Lankan Sloth Bear
Sun Bear
Polar Bear
Ursid hybrid Grizzly–polar bear hybrid
Spectacled Bear

It is amazing that this variety on just one specific species of animal, was either all on the ark or, has evolved and migrated throughout the earth from the two bears that were on the ark during the last 4,000 years.

[_subgenius]

....
It is amazing..

yes it is, but i am sure we use the word "amazing" differently.

... that this variety on just one specific species of animal, was either all on the ark or, has evolved and migrated throughout the earth from the two bears that were on the ark during the last 4,000 years.

Let us first ignore your post's inadequate understanding of what a "subspecies" is, what morphology is ,and even what basic evolution is; and concentrate on more interesting notions it may have inadvertently brought about:
for example - Horses (Equus) mysteriously disappeared from the North and South American continents about 10,000 years ago...no one knows why, and several unproven theories are adrift about such a strange occurrence. Essentially no horse in the western hemisphere. They did not show up until the Spaniards brought them over in the 16th century. And now in the course of about 5 centuries there are over 25 breeds in North America.

American Curly
American Cream
American Saddlebred
Buckskin (color breed)
Canadian Horse
Canadian Sport
Colorado Ranger Horse
Florida Cracker Horse
Kentucky Mountain
McCurdy Plantation
Missouri Fox Trotter
Morab Horse
Morgan Horse
Mountain Pleasure
Moyle
Narragansett Pacer
National Show Horse
Paso Fino
Palomino (color breed)
Quarter Horse
Racking Horse
Single-footed
Sport Horse
Spotted Saddle
Standardbred
Tennessee Walking Horse

That is a lot of breeds for just 500 years (5% of 10k), wonder how many will be around in 10,000 years? If anything it may be "amazing" that your bear list is rather short.
Cattle was also introduced in the 16th century to North America, and the list of those breeds is way too long to post here.

[_Drifting]

for example - Horses (Equus) mysteriously disappeared from the North and South American continents about 10,000 years ago...no one knows why,

Can't have done,
Because the earth is only 10,000 years old and as Jeffrey R Holland has already told us - the American continent wasn't formed until after the great Flood which took place circa 4,000 years ago. Right?

So all the bears I listed and all the horses you listed were either on the ark or have evolved from animals on the ark and have done so in a mere 4,000 years. Correct?

[_canpakes]

....
It is amazing..

yes it is, but i am sure we use the word "amazing" differently.

... that this variety on just one specific species of animal, was either all on the ark or, has evolved and migrated throughout the earth from the two bears that were on the ark during the last 4,000 years.

Let us first ignore your post's inadequate understanding of what a "subspecies" is, what morphology is ,and even what basic evolution is; and concentrate on more interesting notions it may have inadvertently brought about:
for example - Horses (Equus) mysteriously disappeared from the North and South American continents about 10,000 years ago...no one knows why, and several unproven theories are adrift about such a strange occurrence. Essentially no horse in the western hemisphere. They did not show up until the Spaniards brought them over in the 16th century. And now in the course of about 5 centuries there are over 25 breeds in North America.

American Curly
American Cream
American Saddlebred
Buckskin (color breed)
Canadian Horse
Canadian Sport
Colorado Ranger Horse
Florida Cracker Horse
Kentucky Mountain
McCurdy Plantation
Missouri Fox Trotter
Morab Horse
Morgan Horse
Mountain Pleasure
Moyle
Narragansett Pacer
National Show Horse
Paso Fino
Palomino (color breed)
Quarter Horse
Racking Horse
Single-footed
Sport Horse
Spotted Saddle
Standardbred
Tennessee Walking Horse

That is a lot of breeds for just 500 years (5% of 10k), wonder how many will be around in 10,000 years? If anything it may be "amazing" that your bear list is rather short.
Cattle was also introduced in the 16th century to North America, and the list of those breeds is way too long to post here.

You have posted a list of breeds of horses. Much of these are the result of human-directed efforts in horse breeding.

Do you intend to show how the level of diversity of other critters not purposefully and selectively bred by man has become so massive in so short the time since Noah, for example, as is the case with insects?

[_Buffalo]

I'd never heard of "pre-adamites" until I read the apologist forum. Literally, never heard of it before.

No death before the fall means no death before the fall to the believers I know. And, yes, they are educated people.

LDSfaqs seems to think that the true gospel lies in the teachings of FAIR, and everything you hear at actual Mormon churches is anti-Mormon lies.

[_Buffalo]

for example - Horses (Equus) mysteriously disappeared from the North and South American continents about 10,000 years ago...no one knows why

Untrue. They were hunted to extinction by humans. It's no mystery. And I think you'll find your horse breeds came about so quickly via human intervention.

[_DrW]

... (and especially not in my presence) ...

Are You a snapper?

LOL.

I can be, I guess.

I am usually quite sedate and well-behaved until someone makes the same silly statement to me for the second or third time (sort of like on this board). When this happens, the folks making such statements are likely to be asked to defend them, which of course, they can never do, especially after I point out to them some of the silly anti-science beliefs that most Mormons actually have.

These conversations often happen with other TBMs around (Holiday parties, etc.), and after being asked to consider their unfounded beliefs in the light of fact, I have never known anyone to make such a statement in my presence again. (I guess I have found a way of encouraging folks to become fast learners.)

[_DrW]

To follow up on the response to Ludwigm, it is interesting how many Mormon adults seem to have never really critically thought about what they are supposed to believe. As pointed out in the OP, they are taught that Mormonism does not conflict with science, and many of them simply accept this assertion having given it little or no critical thought.

When they do think about it, and see apparent conflicts, they simply assume that someone higher up in the Church knows something they don't, otherwise these kinds of assertions would not be taught in Church.

Apparently very few ever really recognize statements of Church leaders, such as the famous faux pas of Jeffrey Holland, for the ridiculous, unfounded and just plain wrong assertions that they really are.

These kinds of attitudes from religionists are what worry many rational secularist authors. These attitudes are why many authors say, and rightly so, the we cannot afford this kind of faith (unfounded belief) based thinking in an age when the means for severely damaging civilization are so widely distributed, including into the hands of people who demonstrate willful ignorance of important information and basic knowledge.

[_subgenius]

Can't have done,

i do not know what grammar this is....que?

Because the earth is only 10,000 years old and as Jeffrey R Holland has already told us - the American continent wasn't formed until after the great Flood which took place circa 4,000 years ago. Right?

not right

So all the bears I listed and all the horses you listed were either on the ark or have evolved from animals on the ark and have done so in a mere 4,000 years. Correct?

incorrect
But it should be noted that the horses i did list have evolved in a mere 500 years.