Large numbers of members apostatizing - says Marlin K Jensen

[_bcspace]

So the internet teaches uncertainty due to discovering previously unknown Church history and a concomitant desire to sin because of that uncertainty.

The "internet" doesn't teach anything.

[_Franktalk]

I'm not sure what the willingness to be slaughtered for you beliefs has to do with truth value of your beliefs. Indeed, it would seem that if your beliefs lead you to be slaughtered, they're doing you a disservice, and you can't even claim that they hold practical value, let alone supernatural value.

So everyone be damned but you. Nice value system you have there. So just what do you believe? If indeed you are not willing to work at what you believe why would anyone trust anything you say? You seem to think that it is up to everyone else to provide proof to you so you can sit in judgment of the evidence. How sad to hold to nothing, believe in nothing, and do nothing. Yet you throw rocks at others who have put in the effort to find what they seek. But you who won't lift a finger to seek beyond your own nose will tell me what is true and what is not? I hope you are happy with your limited world. And indeed it is limited by your own choice.

[_Drifting]

I'm not sure what the willingness to be slaughtered for you beliefs has to do with truth value of your beliefs. Indeed, it would seem that if your beliefs lead you to be slaughtered, they're doing you a disservice, and you can't even claim that they hold practical value, let alone supernatural value.

So everyone be damned but you. Nice value system you have there.

Where did he damn everyone?

[_Quasimodo]

So the internet teaches uncertainty due to discovering previously unknown Church history and a concomitant desire to sin because of that uncertainty.

The "internet" doesn't teach anything.

The internet has just about all the knowledge that has been accumulated throughout history available at your fingertips. If your not learning anything, it's your own fault.

[_Buffalo]

I'm not sure what the willingness to be slaughtered for you beliefs has to do with truth value of your beliefs. Indeed, it would seem that if your beliefs lead you to be slaughtered, they're doing you a disservice, and you can't even claim that they hold practical value, let alone supernatural value.

So everyone be damned but you.

You're confused. I'm an atheist. No one is damned.

Nice value system you have there. So just what do you believe? If indeed you are not willing to work at what you believe why would anyone trust anything you say? You seem to think that it is up to everyone else to provide proof to you so you can sit in judgment of the evidence. How sad to hold to nothing, believe in nothing, and do nothing. Yet you throw rocks at others who have put in the effort to find what they seek. But you who won't lift a finger to seek beyond your own nose will tell me what is true and what is not? I hope you are happy with your limited world. And indeed it is limited by your own choice.

Most of this tirade had very little to do with my own positions. You ask what I believe and then you answer for me in the most uncharitable way you could.

My value system is simply this - behave ethically. Take good care of your friends and family. Try to make the world a better place. Be skeptical of claims that don't stand up to scrutiny - those that come without any real evidence to back them up. Be wise. Indeed, follow the admonition of Rabbi Yeshua ben Yosef, who said to be wise as serpents yet harmless as doves.

[_Themis]

I don't find anything factually incorrect.

So you are wrong then on your simple assertion that I am blind when I was factually correct. It also does not help when you do not address what I factually claimed and what it means.

Many say they are spiritual when in fact they are very carnal.

I have learned you really mean anyone who disagrees with you. Same when you call them spiritually blind.

[_bcspace]

The "internet" doesn't teach anything.

The internet has just about all the knowledge that has been accumulated throughout history available at your fingertips

As well as every fraud perpetuated on mankind disguised as knowledge. Anti Mormonism for example.

[_Themis]

As well as every fraud perpetuated on mankind disguised as knowledge. Anti Mormonism for example.

You call anything anti-Mormonism that does not agree with what the church says. Meaningless. Now Joseph's Smith religions he created are a great example.

[_Franktalk]

Where did he damn everyone?

When you do not stand up for what is right, when you let evil rise because it is difficult to stop it, when you stand by and watch someone else suffer because it might take effort to help, then you are damning the world and placing your own comfort in front. If you can not see this then you are blind. I think the self centered moral condition is a terrible thing to witness. If one does not place them self at risk to support their beliefs then they are not beliefs, they are instead empty words.

[_Franktalk]

I have learned you really mean anyone who disagrees with you. Same when you call them spiritually blind.

I have met about a dozen people in my life I would say walk in the spirit. Many more seek this condition yet are not there. But the vast majority of people are not on a path of spirituality. They can still love God and be very good people. Some hold high office in the church. They can still be good people. Yet they are spiritually blind. It is not sinful to be spiritually blinded. Some even cross back and forth from one day to the next. Peter is a classic example.

When I speak of spiritual things (which is rare) I am always careful not to give details because many things discerned spiritually are very difficult to understand and place in proper context. I do however speak a lot about the spiritual journey. I hope that one day something I say will cause someone to start and take that same path. It is not me that will change that person but God. I am but a tool in His hands. I do not know exactly what He expects of me as His servant but I am always ready to do His will.