Large numbers of members apostatizing - says Marlin K Jensen

[_Drifting]

Franktalk,

If all the members thought the way you do, then Jensen wouldn't be facing the biggest out flux since the great bank rip off in old Kirtland town.

[_Franktalk]

Franktalk,

If all the members thought the way you do, then Jensen wouldn't be facing the biggest out flux since the great bank rip off in old Kirtland town.

But that is not going to happen. There is a wide range of spiritual progress for members and the religious at large. Few will find the right way.

Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

In Revelation many gather before the throne. But out of billions it may still be few as a percentage. I do not know.

[_Drifting]

Franktalk,

If all the members thought the way you do, then Jensen wouldn't be facing the biggest out flux since the great bank rip off in old Kirtland town.

But that is not going to happen.

You are quite correct.
As Jensen points out, it's already happened and is continuing unabated.

[_Franktalk]

But the problem is the scriptures don't contain one integrated message, but a variety of viewpoints that often contradict one another. You're reading theology into the scriptures instead of letting them speak for themselves.

Or it is you that can't see scripture for what it is. There are many like you and you can each give comfort to the other in your views. I will remain on the path I am on. I often wonder how God must feel when He sees His children deny His existence. The thing which was made so that we could learn has captured many so they can't see and they can't hear. The cover that surrounds you is a snare.

[_Drifting]

But the problem is the scriptures don't contain one integrated message, but a variety of viewpoints that often contradict one another. You're reading theology into the scriptures instead of letting them speak for themselves.

I often wonder how God must feel when He sees His children deny His existence.

Oh, I think He'll understand.
Especially in light of the harm He allows to befall us.

[_Franktalk]

I often wonder how God must feel when He sees His children deny His existence.

Oh, I think He'll understand.
Especially in light of the harm He allows to befall us.

The pain and suffering that the body experiences is not death to the spirit. This is why Christian Martyrs sang songs as the lions came to them in Rome. What you see as a terrible thing means nothing compared to what the spirit is supposed to learn while here. This is why Christ asked Father to forgive the people who nailed Him to a cross. He cared for their spirits not the actions of their bodies. The world is very powerful on the flesh, it is most difficult to see past it to the real powers. That is why He said:

Luk 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

If your beliefs are to follow the powers that can kill the body then one day maybe in your lifetime the powers of evil will be loosed and you may have to decide to follow or become a martyr, what will you do?

You say that large numbers of people are leaving the church. And the reason given is that they feel they have been lied to. I have not researched any of this. Nor do I care what men say and do. I am sure that men make mistakes and I am sure that men read into things what they wish. I am accused of this very thing yet the people who leave the church are presented as people who read correctly those things which lessen their faith. How odd that people are judged as correct when they lose faith and judged in error when gain faith. It is almost like there is an attack on faith. Seems to me I read this somewhere before.

1Pe 5:9 Whom resist steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

and

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

[_Drifting]

The pain and suffering that the body experiences is not death to the spirit. This is why Christian Martyrs sang songs as the lions came to them in Rome. What you see as a terrible thing means nothing compared to what the spirit is supposed to learn while here. This is why Christ asked Father to forgive the people who nailed Him to a cross. He cared for their spirits not the actions of their bodies. The world is very powerful on the flesh, it is most difficult to see past it to the real powers. That is why He said:

Luk 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

If your beliefs are to follow the powers that can kill the body then one day maybe in your lifetime the powers of evil will be loosed and you may have to decide to follow or become a martyr, what will you do?

I can't help but wonder what happened to the spirit of that little 9 year old LDS girl that was sexually abused by her Primary teacher during Church services. I hope she's learnt her lesson, right?

You say that large numbers of people are leaving the church.

No, Elder Jensen is saying this

And the reason given is that they feel they have been lied to.

No, Elder Jensen is saying that members are leaving because they are finding things out that they should have heard about from the Church

I have not researched any of this.

I know

Nor do I care what men say and do.

Jensen might be hurt by your remarks.

I am sure that men make mistakes and I am sure that men read into things what they wish.

The Missionary programme depends on it.

I am accused of this very thing yet the people who leave the church are presented as people who read correctly those things which lessen their faith. How odd that people are judged as correct when they lose faith and judged in error when gain faith. It is almost like there is an attack on faith. Seems to me I read this somewhere before.

1Pe 5:9 Whom resist steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

and

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Nope, Jensen is stating that members are losing their faith because the Church isn't telling them stuff that they are entitled to know.

[_ludwigm]

but that's like p.....ing in the wind.

You should not use that periods.

The Bible itself explicitly writes "pisseth against the wall" six times, and "they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you" two times. And nobody used to moderate out those verses, in the last four century from 1611 to 2012.
If anything, the scriptures should fit into celestial forum.

But it is merely you reading into scripture that which isn't there.

The scriptures are multifaceted enough to read (into or out) everything, and the opposite of everything.
And all the scriptures are doctrines. (my kind regards to bcspace...)

[_bcuzbcuz]

but that's like p.....ing in the wind.

You should not use that periods.

The Bible itself explicitly writes "pisseth against the wall" six times, and "they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you" two times. And nobody used to moderate out those verses, in the last four century from 1611 to 2012.

You're right. I should have written "but that's like pisseth in the wind" Damn! LoL

[_Buffalo]

But the problem is the scriptures don't contain one integrated message, but a variety of viewpoints that often contradict one another. You're reading theology into the scriptures instead of letting them speak for themselves.

Or it is you that can't see scripture for what it is. There are many like you and you can each give comfort to the other in your views. I will remain on the path I am on. I often wonder how God must feel when He sees His children deny His existence. The thing which was made so that we could learn has captured many so they can't see and they can't hear. The cover that surrounds you is a snare.

I don't care what path you remain on. Do what makes you happy. But your approach to scripture (and discourse, for that matter) is fuzzy-headed.