Marlin K Jensen: Large numbers NOT apostatizing

[_bcspace]

From the anti Mormon rag, the Salt Lake Tribune:

Jensen insists critics overstate the LDS exodus over the church’s history.

“I have heard that our overall activity, especially in the United States, is as good as it’s ever been,” he said. “To say we are experiencing some Titanic-like wave of apostasy is inaccurate.”

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53408134-78/church-lds-mormon-faith.html.csp

[_ludwigm]

Simple case.

Marlin K. Jensen tried to be honest at a Q and A session at Utah State University.
He has said truths which are not useful. (c) BKP

Now it is the time for him to do penance barefoot in order to obtain release from the ban of excommunication imposed by (Pope Gregory VII) ehm... Thomas Monson.


__________________
Canossa. (kə-nŏs'ə, kä-nōs'sä)

Canossa (Province of Reggio Emilia) is a comune and castle town in Emilia-Romagna, famous as the site where Holy Roman Emperor Henry IV did penance in 1077, standing three days bare-headed in the snow, in order to reverse his excommunication by Pope Gregory VII. The Walk to Canossa is sometimes used as a symbol of the changing relationship between the medieval Church and State.

[_subgenius]

From the anti Mormon rag, the Salt Lake Tribune:

Jensen insists critics overstate the LDS exodus over the church’s history.

“I have heard that our overall activity, especially in the United States, is as good as it’s ever been,” he said. “To say we are experiencing some Titanic-like wave of apostasy is inaccurate.”

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53408134-78/church-lds-mormon-faith.html.csp

BUMP BUMP BUMP for Drifting with full retraction and/or back-pedal

(and by Drift's own standards, his fallacy on Jensen is a full condemnation on all of his posts - alas, the baby must be thrown out with the bath water)

[_Runtu]

As I said, it's not "large numbers," though obviously enough people are leaving that the brethren are taking notice. If there weren't a significant loss of members, Jensen's talk would not have made sense.

There's no Titanic wave of apostasy, but it's certainly more than a trickle. I received this anecdote from a friend on his way out of the church:

Well it turns out my stake president just wanted to meet with me to release me from my calling and thank me for my service (I have known him pretty much my whole life). somehow that turned into "the conversation" where I basically expressed my feelings about the church, in a respectful manner, and braced myself for what I feared would come next. he looked at me, took off his glasses, and said, " adam, I'm going to speak to you as a friend right now, not your stake president. and please, what i am about to say next doesn't leave this room. Adam, I'm a scientist (he's a tenured biology professor) and believe me, things really don't add up to me either."

he then went on to say that one minute he was just a dorky scout leader, and before he knew it he became a stake president. basically he's holding on to an experience he had long ago that has sustained him and kept him believing. he also said that my stake here in provo is saturated with people who are questioning things, so much so that jeffrey holland came and held a tri-stake meeting with leadership here a few months ago.

my wife and I decided to talk to our bishop, just to get it all out of the way and clear up any rumors that we've become satanists or something. i shared with him the same thing i did with my SP, and once again, he told me that a few years ago he was sitting where I was having the same conversation with the bishop at the time. he told us that there are several doctrines in the church that he refuses to believe, but he finds the church as a whole to be a good thing for his family, and leaving it would be too devastating for him (bear in mind that both of these men are professors at BYU).
needless to say, I was pretty happy with both conversations

Is my friend's experience representative? Probably not, but I'm sure there are more people like him than the church would like.

[_Yoda]

As I said, it's not "large numbers," though obviously enough people are leaving that the brethren are taking notice. If there weren't a significant loss of members, Jensen's talk would not have made sense.

There's no Titanic wave of apostasy, but it's certainly more than a trickle. I received this anecdote from a friend on his way out of the church:

Well it turns out my stake president just wanted to meet with me to release me from my calling and thank me for my service (I have known him pretty much my whole life). somehow that turned into "the conversation" where I basically expressed my feelings about the church, in a respectful manner, and braced myself for what I feared would come next. he looked at me, took off his glasses, and said, " adam, I'm going to speak to you as a friend right now, not your stake president. and please, what i am about to say next doesn't leave this room. Adam, I'm a scientist (he's a tenured biology professor) and believe me, things really don't add up to me either."

he then went on to say that one minute he was just a dorky scout leader, and before he knew it he became a stake president. basically he's holding on to an experience he had long ago that has sustained him and kept him believing. he also said that my stake here in provo is saturated with people who are questioning things, so much so that jeffrey holland came and held a tri-stake meeting with leadership here a few months ago.

my wife and I decided to talk to our bishop, just to get it all out of the way and clear up any rumors that we've become satanists or something. i shared with him the same thing i did with my SP, and once again, he told me that a few years ago he was sitting where I was having the same conversation with the bishop at the time. he told us that there are several doctrines in the church that he refuses to believe, but he finds the church as a whole to be a good thing for his family, and leaving it would be too devastating for him (bear in mind that both of these men are professors at BYU).
needless to say, I was pretty happy with both conversations

Is my friend's experience representative? Probably not, but I'm sure there are more people like him than the church would like.

Welcome to the world of NOM! ;-)

[_Buffalo]

Simple case.

Marlin K. Jensen tried to be honest at a Q and A session at Utah State University.
He has said truths which are not useful. (c) BKP

Now it is the time for him to do penance barefoot in order to obtain release from the ban of excommunication imposed by (Pope Gregory VII) ehm... Thomas Monson.


__________________
Canossa. (kə-nŏs'ə, kä-nōs'sä)

Canossa (Province of Reggio Emilia) is a comune and castle town in Emilia-Romagna, famous as the site where Holy Roman Emperor Henry IV did penance in 1077, standing three days bare-headed in the snow, in order to reverse his excommunication by Pope Gregory VII. The Walk to Canossa is sometimes used as a symbol of the changing relationship between the medieval Church and State.

Yup, it's pretty clear Jensen got spanked for being too candid. The message from SLC must always be the same: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth.

[_brade]

[_Buffalo]

Hilarious!! :D

[_Themis]

From the anti Mormon rag, the Salt Lake Tribune:

Jensen insists critics overstate the LDS exodus over the church’s history.

“I have heard that our overall activity, especially in the United States, is as good as it’s ever been,” he said. “To say we are experiencing some Titanic-like wave of apostasy is inaccurate.”

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53408134-78/church-lds-mormon-faith.html.csp

Interesting that this comes out now. I suspect that drifting's source is accurate. The problem is that Jensen does not give any numbers, so it is very subjective, and he probably defines titanic quite differently then Kirkland apostasy. It also sounds like he is back peddling a bit after seeing the reaction it is having. Reassure everyone like bcpace that all is well.

[_Quasimodo]

Interesting that this comes out now. I suspect that drifting's source is accurate. The problem is that Jensen does not give any numbers, so it is very subjective, and he probably defines titanic quite differently then Kirtland apostasy. It also sounds like he is back peddling a bit after seeing the reaction it is having. Reassure everyone like bcpace that all is well.

The actual numbers would be interesting (a secret?). If it's only 5%, that means that there is no one left in 20 years.