What is the Miracle of Forgiveness? (revisited)

[_Inconceivable]

Hi all,

I took a moment of reflection and reread this thread from several years back. I wanted to resurrect it for a few reasons:

First, Even after all this time, I have not discarded my personal experiences although I have made little progress in understanding them. I am very interested in continuing a thoughtful conversation on the subject, (although I love the idea that the original discussion is only 3 pages long).

Second, it's a discussion where the participants respectfully remained on topic (for the most part). HOW REFRESSING!!


inc.

[_Buffalo]

SWK taught the gospel of autoatonement. His Jesus was a weak and ineffectual Jesus who let his believers do all the heavy lifting alone.

[Guest]

Hi all,

I took a moment of reflection and reread this thread from several years back. I wanted to resurrect it for a few reasons:

First, Even after all this time, I have not discarded my personal experiences although I have made little progress in understanding them. I am very interested in continuing a thoughtful conversation on the subject, (although I love the idea that the original discussion is only 3 pages long).

Second, it's a discussion where the participants respectfully remained on topic (for the most part). HOW REFRESSING!!


inc.

Hi Inconceivable!

I have experienced the miracle of forgiveness and know many others who have also, and so if I might answer your questions from these experiences and how I have come to understand them.

Sin is missing the mark, doing things that take us further into the delusion of separation from God instead of aiming accurately towards eventual unification. Sin invokes the Law of God, of which the Torah is a reflection of this, given, or what was needed given, in a given point in time and space. And so the Law is not absolute in its application in the material realms, but it is absolute in spirit, or the divine intention. The purpose of the Law in physicality is to evolve consciousness through a delayed response or consequence to our sin. We can simplify it by calling it cause and effect. The cause is when we sin, the effect is the consequence of that sin that will unfold, though in physicality delayed so that we might repent or adjust our attitude and behavior. Because of this delayed consequence, we carry debt (if one studies the law of karma in eastern traditions they will find a similar teaching), we carry debt in our energy bodies that draw thoughts and feelings and events to us, bringing events and circumstances into our lives because of a previous sin, all though for our learning and evolution.

The Law is perfect and works up to a certain point in soul evolution, The Law works until souls that otherwise are ready to seek unity with God become so bound up in the consequences of their sin, dealing with what is unfolding in their life, that there is no space or room for seeking unity with God, or just seeking God.

The forgiveness of sin removes debt from our energy bodies, freeing us from being caught up in the debt-induced-consequences. A spiritual Master, as well as an advanced angelic being, has the authority and ability to forgive sin; one like Jesus. Sin is forgiven through their realization of the dream state of this reality, and in affect they dissolve the debt from the dream, releasing the debt from the person's energy body. [This is something that all of us become able to do as we awaken, for ourselves and for others.]

The blockage in the energy body, or debt, is liberated, freeing us from suffering through the consequences of our sin.

The actual experience of forgiveness of sin is much inline with what has been shared on this thread, and is what Jesus teaches in John 3. We find eternal life because of our faith, our believe in the Son of God and all who bear His Name, and we come to the Light allowing our debt to be seen, revealed, and in our seeing it, we wish to be free of it, having faith that we can be made free, confessing, admitting to our missing the mark, repenting or adjusting - doing things differently, and seeking forgiveness of our debt. The effect of the negative deeds we have done are liberated from our energetic body as though they disappear from the dream. And we will see this, experience this, as a release, an ahhhhh moment, and we will feel free or freer with each forgiveness, no longer compelled to repeat the sin, and no longer compelled to suffer the learning consequences. We though in our freedom still need to learn, which is why we see in the Light before the forgiveness comes, so that we can understand why we came to be in bondage, and then we can go and sin no more.

Without sin, as we become increasingly free of sin, our natural human inclination arises, our curiosity about God, a thirst and hunger to seek arises, and we use our freedom to find and unite with God. If though we did not learn in seeing our sin and its release, we just might continue sinning purely out of habit, and remain in bondage.

To follow after Jesus requires us to be free of having to deal with the consequences of our sin, according to the Law, and requires a great deal of merit that comes from doing good deeds. It is called the Law of Karma in other traditions.

To be fully forgiven or free requires that we sin no more, that we no longer place our self in bondage. The forgiveness of sin frees us from being compelled to sin, but we will have to make the conscious choice to not sin or repeat the pattern.

I hope this answers your question?

Shalom!
Sheryl

[_Inconceivable]

..we carry debt in our energy bodies that draw thoughts and feelings and events to us, bringing events and circumstances into our lives because of a previous sin, all though for our learning and evolution.

The Law is perfect and works up to a certain point in soul evolution, The Law works until souls that otherwise are ready to seek unity with God, become so bound up in the consequences of their sin, dealing with what is unfolding in their life, that there is no space or room for seeking unity with God, or just seeking God.

The forgiveness of sin removes debt from our energy bodies, freeing us from being caught up in the debt induced consequences. A spiritual Master, as well as an advanced angelic being, has the authority and ability to forgive sin; one like Jesus. Sin is forgiven through their realization of the dream state of this reality, and in affect they dissolve the debt from the dream, releasing the debt from the person's energy body. [This is something that all of us become able to do as we awaken, for ourselves and for others.]

Thanks Sheryl,

I think I'm following you..

So, as I understand your post, in your opinion, it is not necessarilly "the Christ" that un-blocks or frees our spirit from sin but could be a spiritual Master or advanced angelic being - similar to the characteristics of the Christ.

[_sheryl]

Thanks Sheryl,

I think I'm following you..

So, as I understand your post, in your opinion, it is not necessarilly "the Christ" that un-blocks or frees our spirit from sin but could be a spiritual Master or advanced angelic being - similar to the characteristics of the Christ.

Hi Inconceivable,

We teach that the Christ was with God and was God in the beginning, but came forth, or was begotten into creation, as the image of the Father. Christ then is Spirit beyond our ability to reason or even imagine, for God is Spirit and Spirit gives birth to Spirit.

Anything that becomes a vehicle for Christ, becomes the Christ in their world.

It is a difficult concept when one limits reality, of themselves and the world around them, to simply materiality. The personality that was formed through Mother Mary was made of this world, of the dust of this world and the worlds right on the other side. The personality itself is not Christ, but becomes a vehicle for Christ and as a material and soul vehicle for Christ does become the Christ in materiality.

Christ, as you might know means anointed. Thus it is not Jesus' last name, but a reference to his Spiritual state. Jesus, the personality, was anointed with the Spirit of Christ, actually fully anointed, all other anointings before him being partial. And so as fully anointed Christ he is Messiah, being grounded in this world through the personality Jesus, but connected to the highest realms through the Spirit of Christ.

And so other personalities can likewise be anointed with various levels of the Christ Spirit, including you and me, and be gifted with divine attributes such as being able to forgive sins. Forgiving sins though is not as far out there as it sounds. It is an ability that many with various degrees of Christ anointings have been gifted with.

Being anointed with Christ also means to be clothed in Christ, to come in the Name of Yeshua (Jesus), etc.

Once we are anointed with some degree of Light, we too can see our own bondage and free ourselves, or liberate/forgive our own karma. It is part of the process of being perfected, which actually means being healed, made whole, or what was intended being accomplished.

Hope this is helpful!

Shalom!
Sheryl

[_moksha]

The blockage in the energy body, or debt, is liberated, freeing us from suffering through the consequences of our sin.

I hope this answers your question?

Shalom!
Sheryl

As long as there are no EMP bursts present to disrupt the liberation of the energy body, then my questions are answered.

[_bcspace]

MoF is not that bad of a book. Yet as far as I can tell, it also remains a non doctrinal work.

[_Buffalo]

MoF is not that bad of a book. Yet as far as I can tell, it also remains a non doctrinal work.

It's quite possibly the worst book since Justine, or the Misfortunes of Virtue. Which of the two is actually more sadomasochistic is up for grabs.

[_MCB]

It is truly sadomasochistic.

What I got from it is that God has not forgiven the individual until the LDS community has forgiven the individual. Sometimes that can take a looooong time, especially when key members of the community are busy hiding their own sins.

[_Jason Bourne]

MoF is not that bad of a book.

The last three chapters are pretty good. The rest is an atrocity.

Yet as far as I can tell, it also remains a non doctrinal work.

Oh the good old BC escape hatch. Not doctrinal event though it is quoted abundantly in Church manuals. Not doctrinal even though the entire book has been referred to over the GC pulpit as as good resource on repentance. Not doctrinal even though SWK was an apostle then church president when it was in its hey day. Not doctrinal even though likely 90% of the LDS Church bishops used it as a tool to "help" those in the repentance process. Not doctrinal even though it is or at least was one of the few books approved for missionaries to read other than the standard works.

What a pile of BS to say it is non doctrinal. Those who read it figured the words of a prophet mean something. But not BC.