Franktalk, Are we hear to learn about good and evil?

[_sheryl]

I know this is an unpopular view, but there is purpose in living in a world of good and evil, of evil and the suffering that is caused by evil. If we believe the lies though this does not make sense.

The lie we have fallen victim to centers around this physical realm and what happens here as being more than it is, that somehow our existence is founded here. Who we are begins and ends in the physical realm.

This might give more insight into what I am saying. Say we have a dream, and in the dream a man comes into our house and beats us and rapes us and steals all that we have, departing, leaving us alone, bleeding without any means of calling out for help. In our dream, we are suffering horribly, with pain, with fear, with fear of dying. We hear noises and think the man is coming back to kill us off. While we are asleep and dreaming, the suffering is very very real. While we are asleep and dreaming, the dream and who we are in the dream and what is happening in the dream is our reality, our only reality.

But alas we eventually wake up, and the suffering ends. We think glad that was only a dream, and we eventually move on in waking life, the dream world becoming increasingly unreal in our waking state.

The truth is that this world is a dream world. Our consciousness is asleep and dreaming. And in the dream world we suffer, every suffering that is conceivable we have experienced, living multiple lives or dreams. The purpose of the dream world is to wake us up as individual consciousness, and suffering in the dream is necessary for this to happen.

I promise you though when your soul is liberated, when you wake up from this dream, it will be as though it did not exist.

C. S. Lewis was more spot on than many can imagine when he wrote at the end of the Chronicles of Narnia:

'The term is over: the holidays have begun. The dream is ended: this is the morning.'
And as He spoke, He no longer looked to them like a lion; but the things that began to happen after that were so great and beautiful that I cannot write them. And for us this is the end of all the stories, and we can most truly say that they all lived happily ever after. But for them it was only the beginning of the real story. All their life in this world and all their adventures in Narnia had only been the cover and the title page: now at least they were beginning Chapter One of the Great Story which no one on earth has read: which goes on for ever: in which every chapter is better than the one before.

And for anyone who says this is malarkey, I ask why are we 'allowed' to fall asleep and dream nightmares, which are very real to us in the moment, in which we suffer greatly, if this is not a picture or a message of the greater reality of our waking life, that it too is a dream?


Shalom!

Sheryl

[_Franktalk]

Still waiting for a comment. You mean to state that this poor battered child "chose" to come to earth and live in pain?

Yes I do. Jesus came to the earth knowing He would be nailed to a cross. He also knew that he would suffer the sins of the world. I am sure that the sins of the world were worse than the crucifixion. I know that Christ knew because of the prophesies concerning Him. It is unknown how much we know about our life in the flesh. But since Father does not take away choice I feel that we must know something about where we are going in some detail.

The value of this life is how we live it and do we seek the true power of the universe. The suffering in the large view means little. If it means something to you then your view of the world and of the creation is incorrect.

We differ on the purpose of us coming here. I know there is a purpose. Can you state what the purpose of us coming here is?

[_sheryl]

Yes I do. Jesus came to the earth knowing He would be nailed to a cross. He also knew that he would suffer the sins of the world. I am sure that the sins of the world were worse than the crucifixion. I know that Christ knew because of the prophesies concerning Him. It is unknown how much we know about our life in the flesh. But since Father does not take away choice I feel that we must know something about where we are going in some detail.

The value of this life is how we live it and do we seek the true power of the universe. The suffering in the large view means little. If it means something to you then your view of the world and of the creation is incorrect.

We differ on the purpose of us coming here. I know there is a purpose. Can you state what the purpose of us coming here is?

Our tradition teaches that the young girl did not consciously decide to come into this world and suffer, unless she is a liberated being. Rather she was compelled to do so, similar to how we are compelled to dream certain dreams at nighttime, all as an arising of our evolution as individuated consciousnesses.

Jesus or Yeshua, his Aramaic name, though did consciously choose to come into this dream world and suffer in the dream, to reveal to us how to transcend the dream and wake up from the dream. There are teachings about Yeshua, on the cross, where while hanging on the cross suffering he also appeared to his disciples not suffering. Transcending while still experiencing what was happening on the cross, able to move in and out of the dream, being free.

The dream though as Frank is sharing is very important. Our coming here, suffering and learning, essential in our becoming sons of God. We though, by following the teachings and the Way laid out by Yeshua can also transcend the dream, suffering though not suffering.

Peace,

Sheryl

[_Drifting]

Still waiting for a comment. You mean to state that this poor battered child "chose" to come to earth and live in pain?

Yes I do. Jesus came to the earth knowing He would be nailed to a cross. He also knew that he would suffer the sins of the world. I am sure that the sins of the world were worse than the crucifixion. I know that Christ knew because of the prophesies concerning Him. It is unknown how much we know about our life in the flesh. But since Father does not take away choice I feel that we must know something about where we are going in some detail.

The value of this life is how we live it and do we seek the true power of the universe. The suffering in the large view means little. If it means something to you then your view of the world and of the creation is incorrect.

We differ on the purpose of us coming here. I know there is a purpose. Can you state what the purpose of us coming here is?

Frank,

(God forbid this ever happens, by the way)
If your wife is raped and beaten you will accept that before she was born she specifically chose to be raped and beaten?

[_bcuzbcuz]

In our dream, we are suffering horribly, with pain, with fear, with fear of dying. We hear noises and think the man is coming back to kill us off. While we are asleep and dreaming, the suffering is very very real. While we are asleep and dreaming, the dream and who we are in the dream and what is happening in the dream is our reality, our only reality.

But alas we eventually wake up, and the suffering ends. We think glad that was only a dream, and we eventually move on in waking life, the dream world becoming increasingly unreal in our waking state.

The truth is that this world is a dream world.

And I'll bet your paranoid/rape dreams are only fantasies. You wake up each morning to health and wealth and a world where your biggest worries center around which clothes are best for the day. Do you ever wake up to no breakfast, no food for the day, no heat in your house, or maybe not even a house to live in? Have you ever had to worry where you next mouthful would be found?

If you've read my previous posts then you know about my foster child that lived, each and every day for her first three years of life, in pain. When the pain subsided all that was left was a tortured and twisted body. Her brain damage is such that she will never be able to communicate other than throughs tears and whines, whimpers and cries. The Children's Hospital said that even her smiles could be an unknowing body trying to communicate pain. Your message is, "Just hang in there, it will all be over soon."

Narnia is fantasy. Your dreamworld scenario is a pretty fantasy. It is a fantasy invented by clever people meant to pacify and calm, cajole and deflate defiance. It is a fantasy that works best for those who have "imagined" struggles and tribulations. It works best for those who have lots of leisure time to wonder about the "meaning of life" because they aren't fully engaged in trying to survive. It is a fantasy that works best on a full stomach.

When you wake up the day after you die and absolutely NOTHING is there, what will be your biggest regret?

[_bcuzbcuz]

We differ on the purpose of us coming here. I know there is a purpose. Can you state what the purpose of us coming here is?

Purpose? Your question is irrelevant. I exist then I die. Hopefully I do as little harm to my fellow man as possible. I am a pacifist, socialist and gladly pay Caesar his due, for the welfare of others. This is hardly a purpose. It is a bewildered, confused, wandering through life. I don't look for answers when the question is skewed in favor of a specific outcome. I look forward to the release of death

According to your scriptures God put us here for his glory, we are nothing except through him.The scriptures say he is paying attention and caring for each and every one of us. Even you must admit that can't be truth in advertising?

Your purpose in life is so dependent on the existence of God. Dependent on Jesus actually living and then dying on the cross. Dependent on life eternal. Dependent on young and old people seeing angels and writing books to be studied. Dependent on living according to how others have said you must live. Even so, you have to depend on God judging your effort as worthy. (Whoa, that's a biggy) Any of these tests don't pass the BS step, what then?

And if you get it wrong? If you slip up? If you missed one essential item? Oops, no purpose! Do you believe in death bed repentance?

[_Franktalk]

(God forbid this ever happens, by the way)
If your wife is raped and beaten you will accept that before she was born she specifically chose to be raped and beaten?

You don't understand. We chose to come into a world in which evil exist and manifest in many ways. I do not think we get all of the detail but we know how bad it can be. So in that sense we all do pick to come here knowing that bad things happen and we are to learn from them. If it is your desire to have all of us protected from evil then you are against the plan of God which is for us to learn good from evil. Maybe you think you can learn evil from a book and don't have to actually live it.

When Peter said he did not want Jesus to die Jesus said to him "get behind me Satan". There is God's plan and there is not God's plan. It is that simple. We all have to grow in this world. Some are tempted by wealth and power, others by pain and suffering. It is my belief that wealth and power are way harder to see through to God's plan than pain. When people receive pain they cry out to God but few wealthy men cry out to God to have their wealth taken away. So I see the world upside down from what most would see. When we die we take the memories of this existence with us. But just what is important? The knowledge of men and how things work in this creation? No, that would not be important. Would all of your earthly possessions mean anything? No, we don't take anything material with us. What about the things we learned on how to deal with good and evil? That would be very valuable indeed. If we did learn that lesson then we proceed into the eternities as sons of God and we progress one step at a time towards having the love and will of the Father. But if we embraced evil then we are subjected to correction.

[_Franktalk]

And if you get it wrong? If you slip up? If you missed one essential item? Oops, no purpose! Do you believe in death bed repentance?

I do believe in death bed repentance. Most of us live a lie. We project to the world one person but deep inside we are another. God seeks that inside man, He seeks what is in the heart. If a men lived a lie and deep inside wished to be a servant of God he can confess on his deathbed and God will hear him. If however a man truly embraced evil and in the last hour sees hell approach then the begging means nothing. This man is not repenting but screaming out in fear of judgment. Judgment comes to all, to some as a mill stone around the neck, others well, not so much.

[_Franktalk]

The dream though as Frank is sharing is very important. Our coming here, suffering and learning, essential in our becoming sons of God. We though, by following the teachings and the Way laid out by Yeshua can also transcend the dream, suffering though not suffering.

Peace,

Sheryl

In order to see the truth of the purpose one must only focus on the goal. Then little by little the ideas of this world turn upside down to fit in the greater reality. When someone reads about how pain and suffering is a fast track to seeking God the world will not allow them to see pain in that light. And light is what we seek. In pain we can either seek God and ask for help knowing that He holds all power. Or we can blame God for the suffering. In an odd sense the blaming of God is faith in God. It is the desire of a person to love God but they have not figured out that Father is God and we are the servants. They wish to mold God into a protector of earthly disasters. But He is just the opposite. He has set the stage for us to experience evil and then to reject it. They see God not as God because there is no evil in God. They assign evil to God or they assign God as a policeman. The third way that man responds to pain is to look towards the world. Some people deny the existence of Father and seek only solutions in this world. They are lost.

I have often wondered about the dream state. I start to pray as I go to sleep and sometime after I am asleep the prayer must end. I am not aware of praying (or remember) in my sleep but I am sure it happens. It is obvious that animals have dreams as well. Any thoughts about the spirit of animals?

Frank

[_Drifting]

(God forbid this ever happens, by the way)
If your wife is raped and beaten you will accept that before she was born she specifically chose to be raped and beaten?

You don't understand. We chose to come into a world in which evil exist and manifest in many ways. I do not think we get all of the detail but we know how bad it can be. So in that sense we all do pick to come here knowing that bad things happen and we are to learn from them. If it is your desire to have all of us protected from evil then you are against the plan of God which is for us to learn good from evil. Maybe you think you can learn evil from a book and don't have to actually live it.

When Peter said he did not want Jesus to die Jesus said to him "get behind me Satan". There is God's plan and there is not God's plan. It is that simple. We all have to grow in this world. Some are tempted by wealth and power, others by pain and suffering. It is my belief that wealth and power are way harder to see through to God's plan than pain. When people receive pain they cry out to God but few wealthy men cry out to God to have their wealth taken away. So I see the world upside down from what most would see. When we die we take the memories of this existence with us. But just what is important? The knowledge of men and how things work in this creation? No, that would not be important. Would all of your earthly possessions mean anything? No, we don't take anything material with us. What about the things we learned on how to deal with good and evil? That would be very valuable indeed. If we did learn that lesson then we proceed into the eternities as sons of God and we progress one step at a time towards having the love and will of the Father. But if we embraced evil then we are subjected to correction.

I find it interesting that it doesn't cause you pause to realise that Satan is an integral and essential part of God's plan. Without Satan, God's plan fails. If Satan tries to tempt us all he is doing is helping with the plan, doing his bit as it were. A clever guy like Satan would have sussed out by now that to foil God's plan he should stop tempting us thereby depriving us of the good and evil learning experience. When you really think about it, you actually believe Satan is on God's side.