Franktalk, Are we hear to learn about good and evil?

[_sheryl]

And I'll bet your paranoid/rape dreams are only fantasies. You wake up each morning to health and wealth and a world where your biggest worries center around which clothes are best for the day. Do you ever wake up to no breakfast, no food for the day, no heat in your house, or maybe not even a house to live in? Have you ever had to worry where you next mouthful would be found?

If you've read my previous posts then you know about my foster child that lived, each and every day for her first three years of life, in pain. When the pain subsided all that was left was a tortured and twisted body. Her brain damage is such that she will never be able to communicate other than throughs tears and whines, whimpers and cries. The Children's Hospital said that even her smiles could be an unknowing body trying to communicate pain. Your message is, "Just hang in there, it will all be over soon."

Narnia is fantasy. Your dreamworld scenario is a pretty fantasy. It is a fantasy invented by clever people meant to pacify and calm, cajole and deflate defiance. It is a fantasy that works best for those who have "imagined" struggles and tribulations. It works best for those who have lots of leisure time to wonder about the "meaning of life" because they aren't fully engaged in trying to survive. It is a fantasy that works best on a full stomach.

When you wake up the day after you die and absolutely NOTHING is there, what will be your biggest regret?

Hello bcuzbcuz,

My heart cries for those such as your foster child and for all beings of this world trapped in a bestial existence. I find it also horrifying that lions and tigers, etc, are compelled to maul and kill other beings for food, that rabbits and other animals are hunted and must continuously live in fear.

It sounds as though you are saying that this world arose randomly like this? That there is absolutely no reason, no purpose for this bestial nature, whether in beasts of the field or what we call human beings? How horrible! Then we should labor to bring an end to it all, don't you think? How horrible to live believing that there is no purpose or reasoning to the suffering that plagues this world!

I offer instead that everything is by design, for the evolution of consciousness.

And when I wake up and find nothing is there? There will be no regrets! For the dream has ended. Those who awaken fully realize that actually at the heart of all is nothing, or rather this No-thing that is not something nor nothing, for within it is infinite potential, for the realization of individual consciousness. And so out of compassion, they join in the Great Labor, the Great Work, to return again and again to the dream world to aid in awakening all beings.

And so when I wake up after I die to find nothing there, there will be joy, bliss, and peace, until it is time to enter into one of the many dream worlds of creation to once again take up the Great Work.

Shalom!

Sheryl

[_bcuzbcuz]

Hello bcuzbcuz,

My heart cries for those such as your foster child and for all beings of this world trapped in a bestial existence. I find it also horrifying that lions and tigers, etc, are compelled to maul and kill other beings for food, that rabbits and other animals are hunted and must continuously live in fear.

It sounds as though you are saying that this world arose randomly like this? That there is absolutely no reason, no purpose for this bestial nature, whether in beasts of the field or what we call human beings? How horrible! Then we should labor to bring an end to it all, don't you think? How horrible to live believing that there is no purpose or reasoning to the suffering that plagues this world!

I offer instead that everything is by design, for the evolution of consciousness.

And when I wake up and find nothing is there? There will be no regrets! For the dream has ended. Those who awaken fully realize that actually at the heart of all is nothing, or rather this No-thing that is not something nor nothing, for within it is infinite potential, for the realization of individual consciousness. And so out of compassion, they join in the Great Labor, the Great Work, to return again and again to the dream world to aid in awakening all beings.

And so when I wake up after I die to find nothing there, there will be joy, bliss, and peace, until it is time to enter into one of the many dream worlds of creation to once again take up the Great Work.

Shalom!

Sheryl

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I don't find it horrible that our world is random, nor that chaos is a frightening concept. Nor do I assign purpose to animals or humans for our "bestial behaviour".

I do not understand, however, your expression, "Then we should labor to bring an end to it all, don't you think?"

Many years ago I was asked by an acquaintance why I cared for a handicapped child, since I did not believe in God. To his way of thinking my non-belief would give license to random acts of cruelty , violence or lawlessness. To wit: No God, no rules.

I found his reasoning nothing short of barbaric, incomprehensible. I definitely would not want to live in his world.

But not having a god puts the full responsibility of the world on my shoulders...and anyone else's who wishes to share the burden. I can never hope for a god to straighten things out, to punish evil, to right all wrongs. Neither is there a satan who permits, causes or misguides into evil. It all falls squarely on us humans. No interceptors, no one to blame, no go-betweens.

But I also accept my limitations. I am not boundlessly wealthy, nor do I have the vigour of youth. I do not try to correct the world, I just pick an issue and work on that alone. One thing at a time.

But unlike you I do not expect, or even wish for, an awakening. I accept that whatever I achieve, whether good or bad, no one is keeping score.

[_sheryl]

In order to see the truth of the purpose one must only focus on the goal. Then little by little the ideas of this world turn upside down to fit in the greater reality. When someone reads about how pain and suffering is a fast track to seeking God the world will not allow them to see pain in that light. And light is what we seek. In pain we can either seek God and ask for help knowing that He holds all power. Or we can blame God for the suffering. In an odd sense the blaming of God is faith in God. It is the desire of a person to love God but they have not figured out that Father is God and we are the servants. They wish to mold God into a protector of earthly disasters. But He is just the opposite. He has set the stage for us to experience evil and then to reject it. They see God not as God because there is no evil in God. They assign evil to God or they assign God as a policeman. The third way that man responds to pain is to look towards the world. Some people deny the existence of Father and seek only solutions in this world. They are lost.

I have often wondered about the dream state. I start to pray as I go to sleep and sometime after I am asleep the prayer must end. I am not aware of praying (or remember) in my sleep but I am sure it happens. It is obvious that animals have dreams as well. Any thoughts about the spirit of animals?

Frank

Hello Frank!

In our tradition it is taught that all that is this physical reality is for the evolution of individuated consciousnesses, which can become vehicles for greater consciousness, or for Spirit, and so animals, plants, and even rocks are part of that evolution.

And so there is 'spirit', and evolving soul, behind animals, as well as plants and rocks. We tend to refer to plants as plant-people, rocks as rock-people etc. And so it is not uncommon for very evolved dog souls to be attracted to certain humans, and seemingly very human like, for their consciousness is most likely ready to enter human form in the next incarnation.

And so we see humanity in all stages of soul evolution presently upon the earth, some revealing that they are new to human form, having come from bestial form, very much behaving still like their animal brethren - which is why some of humanity does not make sense to us! We have a range of evolution from some more evolved and working towards unity with God to some lesser evolved living in horrid conditions not much different than beasts of the field. God determines when and where we will be born in this world, all according to what will most benefit us in the development of our individuation.

Presently we have 7 billion human souls upon the earth, more than there has ever been, for this is indicative of how many souls have evolved sufficiently to take on human form.

I know this sounds far off to some of you, but really given the diversity of humanity, is it not obvious?

Now when a world system evolves collectively to a certain point, the Messiah will incarnate (as soon as human consciousness is able to house the Christ Spirit), to bring this about, as well as carry a world system into the next stages of evolution, advanced souls from elder races incarnate, fully offering themselves in service to Adonai and that world system. This is what the Bible calls the elect. The elect are scattered through out the world, through out humanity, to elevate that part of humanity, to aid in the quickening of their consciousness.

This may be more than you asked for, Frank, but I am thrilled whenever there is an opening so that I might share more.

Shalom!

Sheryl

[_sheryl]

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I don't find it horrible that our world is random, nor that chaos is a frightening concept. Nor do I assign purpose to animals or humans for our "bestial behaviour".

I do not understand, however, your expression, "Then we should labor to bring an end to it all, don't you think?"

Many years ago I was asked by an acquaintance why I cared for a handicapped child, since I did not believe in God. To his way of thinking my non-belief would give license to random acts of cruelty , violence or lawlessness. To wit: No God, no rules.

I found his reasoning nothing short of barbaric, incomprehensible. I definitely would not want to live in his world.

But not having a god puts the full responsibility of the world on my shoulders...and anyone else's who wishes to share the burden. I can never hope for a god to straighten things out, to punish evil, to right all wrongs. Neither is there a satan who permits, causes or misguides into evil. It all falls squarely on us humans. No interceptors, no one to blame, no go-betweens.

But I also accept my limitations. I am not boundlessly wealthy, nor do I have the vigour of youth. I do not try to correct the world, I just pick an issue and work on that alone. One thing at a time.

But unlike you I do not expect, or even wish for, an awakening. I accept that whatever I achieve, whether good or bad, no one is keeping score.

Hello bcuz,

This very much touches a conversation I am presently having with my 15 year old daughter. She considers herself agnostic though she attends a Catholic preparation school. She was very much offended at her religion teacher's suggestion that without faith there could be no morality. She is right to be offended, for while what the teacher stated is not wrong, it is wrong given her definitions of faith and morality.

What you are expressing is your faith in humanity, and according to our tradition, this is equated to faith in God. For humanity is the vehicle through which God touches and works in this world. If we do not believe in humanity, then actually we have no faith, whatever we are calling faith in God without faith in humanity is senseless.

So you may claim that you do not know how humanity got to be in this situation, but you have faith in the goodness of humanity, in their power (which I call Power working through them) to bring about a good world. This my friend, I call an evolving consciousness, one that is farther along than one who claims to have faith in God, but then also believes that this world is going to hell and will be destroyed. If they believe that God's creation is headed to certain destruction, where is their faith?

A true belief in God puts the responsibility fully on our shoulders, while recognizing our limitations, also recognizing that with God's Power nothing is impossible. All that we can imagine can be accomplished and more. You may not call it God's Power, but your faith in this something in humanity is true faith.

Thank you for sharing.

Shalom.

Sheryl

[_Quasimodo]

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I don't find it horrible that our world is random, nor that chaos is a frightening concept. Nor do I assign purpose to animals or humans for our "bestial behaviour".

I do not understand, however, your expression, "Then we should labor to bring an end to it all, don't you think?"

Many years ago I was asked by an acquaintance why I cared for a handicapped child, since I did not believe in God. To his way of thinking my non-belief would give license to random acts of cruelty , violence or lawlessness. To wit: No God, no rules.

I found his reasoning nothing short of barbaric, incomprehensible. I definitely would not want to live in his world.

But not having a god puts the full responsibility of the world on my shoulders...and anyone else's who wishes to share the burden. I can never hope for a god to straighten things out, to punish evil, to right all wrongs. Neither is there a satan who permits, causes or misguides into evil. It all falls squarely on us humans. No interceptors, no one to blame, no go-betweens.

But I also accept my limitations. I am not boundlessly wealthy, nor do I have the vigour of youth. I do not try to correct the world, I just pick an issue and work on that alone. One thing at a time.

But unlike you I do not expect, or even wish for, an awakening. I accept that whatever I achieve, whether good or bad, no one is keeping score.

+1

[_bcuzbcuz]

Hello bcuz,

This very much touches a conversation I am presently having with my 15 year old daughter. She considers herself agnostic though she attends a Catholic preparation school. She was very much offended at her religion teacher's suggestion that without faith there could be no morality. She is right to be offended, for while what the teacher stated is not wrong, it is wrong given her definitions of faith and morality.

What you are expressing is your faith in humanity, and according to our tradition, this is equated to faith in God. For humanity is the vehicle through which God touches and works in this world. If we do not believe in humanity, then actually we have no faith, whatever we are calling faith in God without faith in humanity is senseless.

So you may claim that you do not know how humanity got to be in this situation, but you have faith in the goodness of humanity, in their power (which I call Power working through them) to bring about a good world. This my friend, I call an evolving consciousness, one that is farther along than one who claims to have faith in God, but then also believes that this world is going to hell and will be destroyed. If they believe that God's creation is headed to certain destruction, where is their faith?

A true belief in God puts the responsibility fully on our shoulders, while recognizing our limitations, also recognizing that with God's Power nothing is impossible. All that we can imagine can be accomplished and more. You may not call it God's Power, but your faith in this something in humanity is true faith.

Thank you for sharing.

Shalom.

Sheryl

"without faith there could be no morality" Sorry, but your daughter was right and the teacher was wrong. Faith is not a prerequisite to morality. Lots of people have faith but break the ten commandments. Not just the soldiers who kill, when following orders, but the people who send them there in the first place. And that doesn't matter if they're Jew, gentile, Mormon or Muslim. The whole war in Iraq was immoral from start to finish. Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL) was the first acronym for the USA engagement in Iraq back in 2003. Too bad the idiots caught on to their own misuse of the nomenclature.

The whole sordid history of Mormon polygamy is breaking the ten commandments by its very inception. And yet the Mormon church constantly preaches its form of morality.

I see no link between faith and morality, other than those who claim faith also feel they have the right to define morality.

You also misread, or rather read into, my statements things that are not there. I have no faith in humanity. I expect animals to behave like animals. That is not faith.

I expect humans to continue on behaving like humans always have. When the world declares there is only one panda bear left, all the world's museums will rush to await its death so they can stuff it for a display....if it hasn't already been killed so someone can taste what panda bear meat tastes like.

I agree with Picasso when he stated, upon seeing the beautiful cave drawings in Lascaux, "12,000 years and we have learned nothing."

[_Franktalk]

Sheryl,

I find what you say most fascinating. I know from scripture that there is a progression that we go through. And it is obvious that spirits are contained in houses that are not flesh. I know you believe in many things of the spirit that I have no personal revelation. To be honest there is so much on my path that those kinds of details would be a distraction to me. I am perfectly able to accept all that is revealed to me.

I have always stated that the spirit world is way more complex than we can imagine. And that the learning goes on for an eternity. I have no idea where I will be and who I will be in a billion years but I do look forward to the journey. I think that many see heaven as an end and a rest. I don't see it that way at all.

Frank