What is the Miracle of Forgiveness? (revisited)

[_Inconceivable]

Thanks Jason,

FWIF,

My intention of the OP was to discuss the actual Miracle of Forgiveness - not the book (which I think many of us here have concluded ad nausium that it is about neither M or F).

back to the op..

My observation is that discussing this subject is uncomfortable to many of us (so we make light, avoid or otherwise derail).

I think to seek to experience and understand this miracle means that we must accept a few difficult rules. Rules which transcend religeon and cultural beliefs. In order to experience this miracle, we must be willing to look at ourselves in a deeply personal way. I think we fear this introspection because we're afraid of what we (and even others) may discover about ourselves. "Do I deserve forgiveness?" Perhaps part of the miracle is that we can discover who we truly are, our intent, and who we want to become. - and that we are forgiveable.

I honestly don't know whether there was an actual Jesus or that He is the One that has extended this peace to me (or that it has simply come from within myself and others). But I know this Good News is real. The same that was referred to by those fictitious characters Enos, Alma, Lamoni etc.

[_Runtu]

That was a difficult lesson for me to learn. My whole life I was told I didn't measure up and had all kinds of things to feel guilty for. Even when I did feel forgiven, I remembered that, if I returned to the sin even for a fleeting moment, all of my prior repentance was for nothing and the sin would return on my head.

I had to learn to like myself, and I admit that I still struggle with self-esteem. But I know that I'm a good person, that I am doing my best to be honest, loving, kind, and charitable. That's enough for me.

[_Inconceivable]

That was a difficult lesson for me to learn. My whole life I was told I didn't measure up and had all kinds of things to feel guilty for. Even when I did feel forgiven, I remembered that, if I returned to the sin even for a fleeting moment, all of my prior repentance was for nothing and the sin would return on my head.

That's pretty fuzzy math isn't it?

Zero (forgiven slips on bananas) + One (new slip on a banana) = Epic 12 banana wipeout.

It's been refreshing to let go of this soul poisoning mantra. I can now hear myself better. I am more forgiving, less condemning. Of others too for the most part. I more clearly evaluate my behavior as a friend and am more honest in my approach to a remedy and ultimately a return of peace.

I had to learn to like myself, and I admit that I still struggle with self-esteem. But I know that I'm a good person, that I am doing my best to be honest, loving, kind, and charitable. That's enough for me.

Thanks Runtu,

I think you're right. Does it matter Who forgives us if we haven't the capacity to validate and forgive ourselves? Think about it.

[_bcspace]

No, I don't know. But what I do know is that most members take the Church at it's word for what constitutes doctrine.

I have yet to see a single believer agree with your interpretation of what constitutes doctrine.

I've never met anyone in Church who doesn't agree with the Church as to what is and is not LDS doctrine. I ask around from time to time and the answer always boils down to official publication.

The membership doesn't determine doctrine, so no, they aren't the Church in this sense.

Doctrine is what is taught. And members teach the doctrine.

From the official publications yes. The Church certainly hasn't listed any other options for official doctrine besides them.

[Guest]

let's not give bc access to the gong on this one.

Heaven forbid someone might communicate the Church's take on doctrine in the face of persistent denial. Especially when it gives you an out to ignore a work you dislike.

Why does everyone fall for this?

Because some know they are going outside the bounds of official doctrine when they criticize the Church. And some were obviously not paying attention and are now angry because it invalidates the reasons they say caused their leaving the Church in the first place.

[_bcspace]

Seek ye out of the best books. Doesn't make it official doctrine.

Perhaps not official but certainly defacto.

Not when it comes down to the nitty gritty. Anyone can point to the publisher of MoF in any LDS bishop's office and state it's not doctrine and be correct unless one can find it somewhere else in an official publication.

[_Drifting]

The Miracle of Forgiveness

By President Spencer W. Kimball. This book declares the seriousness of sin and the need for sincere repentance. It celebrates the redeeming power of the Savior to transform lives through His Atonement.
$15.75 USD
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Item:80080000
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Does the fact that this book is available for purchase via the official Church online store make it officially sanctioned?

[_Inconceivable]

Drifting,
Nobody cares. Avoid the church's trunk monkey. Let it go.

[_Buffalo]

I've never met anyone in Church who doesn't agree with the Church as to what is and is not LDS doctrine. I ask around from time to time and the answer always boils down to official publication.

You can make all the unverifiable claims you wish. No one at MAD agrees with you.

[_bcspace]

You can make all the unverifiable claims you wish. No one at MAD agrees with you.

MAD is not the Church. I also note that no TBM's who disagree are willing to ask their Bishop or Stake Pres. Seems to me they know the Church's stance on doctrine is right and just don't want to admit it.

Does the fact that this book is available for purchase via the official Church online store make it officially sanctioned?

Sure. Doesn't make it official doctrine though.