Swedenborg...

[_Fence Sitter]

It is ironic how any possible parallel from 2000 years ago is seen as proof while those from 200 years ago are rejected and vice versa.

[_Themis]

I did a search of Mormon charities and found many. I did a search of Swedenborg charities and found none. Unless someone can show me where these people act as servants to the Lord I have to put them aside. A wise man once said:

Is that really fair way of determining whether they act as servants? I doubt you would be able to find any with a group so small.

The real issue here is that almost every doctrine Joseph came up with was already around. He just put together what he liked.

[_Equality]

I did a search of Mormon charities and found many. I did a search of Swedenborg charities and found none. Unless someone can show me where these people act as servants to the Lord I have to put them aside. A wise man once said:

Is that really fair way of determining whether they act as servants? I doubt you would be able to find any with a group so small.

The real issue here is that almost every doctrine Joseph came up with was already around. He just put together what he liked.

Indeed that is the real issue, and notice how the mopes don't address it? They never do. They can't point to a single doctrine that Joseph Smith "restored" that was unique--everything he came up with was in the cultural milieu in which he emerged. Some of Swedenborg's ideas are also found in Thomas Dick's The Philosophy of a Future State, and we know Smith had a copy of that.

[_Drifting]

The real issue here is that almost every doctrine Joseph came up with was already around. He just put together what he liked.

Indeed that is the real issue, and notice how the mopes don't address it? They never do. They can't point to a single doctrine that Joseph Smith "restored" that was unique--everything he came up with was in the cultural milieu in which he emerged. Some of Swedenborg's ideas are also found in Thomas Dick's The Philosophy of a Future State, and we know Smith had a copy of that.

Subby, Frank,
Care to comment?

[_subgenius]

... They can't point to a single doctrine that Joseph Smith"restored" that was unique...

i am just going to pause and enjoy the humor in your criticism (and logic) that what was "brought back" was apparently supposed to be something which was not before.

restored
past participle, past tense of re·store (Verb)
Verb:
1. Bring back; reinstate.
2. Return (someone or something) to a former condition, place, or position.

[_subgenius]

The real issue here is that almost every doctrine Joseph came up with was already around.

to an extent, this is arguably true...keyword = "restoration"

He just put together what he liked.

Not even good speculation and hardly even good imagination. you have no evidence to support this claim.

[_MCB]

Not even good speculation and hardly even good imagination. you have no evidence to support this claim.

That would take a whole book!!! Certainly not a subject for a (sorry, Shades) puny discussion board.

[_Equality]

... They can't point to a single doctrine that Joseph Smith"restored" that was unique...

i am just going to pause and enjoy the humor in your criticism (and logic) that what was "brought back" was apparently supposed to be something which was not before.

restored
past participle, past tense of re·store (Verb)
Verb:
1. Bring back; reinstate.
2. Return (someone or something) to a former condition, place, or position.

The concept of restoration includes the notion that what is being "restored" had been "lost" to the people receiving it from the "restorer." The Mormon claim is that Joseph Smith restored ancient truths that were, to the people of the early 19th century, lost and unknown. That the ideas Smith claimed to be restoring from ancient sources (such as the Book of Abraham, the Book of Mormon, or the "inspired" version of the Bible he produced) were part of the cultural milieu of frontier America strikes a blow to this claim. For example, Smith claimed that ideas about gradations of intelligences came from Abraham who wrote about them with his own hand on papyrus that Smith claimed to translate. Those ideas, however, can be found in Thomas Dick's Philosophy of a Future State. This shows that the ideas that Smith claimed to be "restoring" from Abraham were not actually "restored" at all, but rather were borrowed from Dick and put into Smith's "translation."

[_Equality]

... They can't point to a single doctrine that Joseph Smith"restored" that was unique...

i am just going to pause and enjoy the humor in your criticism (and logic) that what was "brought back" was apparently supposed to be something which was not before.

restored
past participle, past tense of re·store (Verb)
Verb:
1. Bring back; reinstate.
2. Return (someone or something) to a former condition, place, or position.

Now, after you've had your laugh, you could respond to the challenge: what ideas did Joseph Smith "restore" that he could not have picked up from contemporary sources?

[_ludwigm]

... challenge: what ideas did Joseph Smith "restore" that he could not have picked up from contemporary sources?

- curelom
- cumom
- neas
- sheum
- ziff
- telestial

Is this enough?