Tobin wrote:I don't know. Do you think records written on Gold Plates, Angels appearing and visions of God are plausible? Err, wait, don't answer that. Please. If you are going down the rabbit hole with Alice, you have to drink the potion.
Looking at other evidences it becomes clear that the Book of Mormon, etc have nothing to do with angels or God. As to angels, God, or aliens visiting earth, I am not going to comment.
Quasimodo wrote:Who's going down the fantasy rabbit hole? I don't believe any human could make the journey under those conditions. What we're discussing is the veracity of the story. If you want to throw in Angels and God (Moroni must have forgotten to mention them) you might just as well throw in Alice and the potions (a white rabbit, too). The point is that the story just doesn't work for anyone who has not drunk the Kool-Aid.
Under what conditions? You stated the gold plates weighed 200 lbs. I made no such assertion.
Others have, but fine. Assign whatever weight to the plates that makes you happy. The rest of the conditions make it impossible.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
Tobin wrote:Under what conditions? You stated the gold plates weighed 200 lbs. I made no such assertion.
Others have, but fine. Assign whatever weight to the plates that makes you happy. The rest of the conditions make it impossible.
Yes, because a man with the help of God can't do the impossible like come back to life or walk on water kind of impossible? I just want to quantify how impossible this 'impossible' is?
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:Yes, because a man with the help of God can't do the impossible like come back to life or walk on water kind of impossible? I just want to quantify how impossible this 'impossible' is?
Unless you make up fairy tale endings, quite impossible.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
Tobin wrote:Yes, because a man with the help of God can't do the impossible like come back to life or walk on water kind of impossible? I just want to quantify how impossible this 'impossible' is?
Unless you make up fairy tale endings, quite impossible.
I see. Well, I think it is a stretch to state it is impossible given what else we know about Christianity and Mormonism. They seem to have a lot of 'impossible' claims. A man travelling a few thousand miles with a heavy load over many years doesn't seem very high on that list of 'impossible' things to me.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:I see. Well, I think it is a stretch to state it is impossible given what else we know about Christianity and Mormonism. They seem to have a lot of 'impossible' claims. A man travelling a few thousand miles with a heavy load over many years doesn't seem very high on that list of 'impossible' things to me.
Moroni, surrounded by enemies, physically weary from the greatest battle in human history and emotionally crushed by the death of his father and entire civilization, stands in the rain forest of the Isthmus of Panama and with one last effort cries out to the heavens "I'm going to jog to New York with these plates"!
Very credible.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
Drifting wrote:He also hid all the horses and steel weapons before he set off...Which was a bit stupid considering he then had to complete his journey on foot and unarmed.
You made both those assumptions: 1) He made it on foot. I don't know that he did. 2) That he was unarmed. He was? I admit was a long distance to travel, but to state it was impossible is really overstating the case by a lot. We are still talking about the Book of Mormon here. The guys sailed from the Middle East in a ship.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:I see. Well, I think it is a stretch to state it is impossible given what else we know about Christianity and Mormonism. They seem to have a lot of 'impossible' claims. A man travelling a few thousand miles with a heavy load over many years doesn't seem very high on that list of 'impossible' things to me.
Moroni, surrounded by enemies, physically weary from the greatest battle in human history and emotionally crushed by the death of his father and entire civilization, stands in the rain forest of the Isthmus of Panama and with one last effort cries out to the heavens "I'm going to jog to New York with these plates"!
Very credible.
Yes, I get the distinct impression that Moroni was depressed and just sat around all day waiting for the Lamanites to do him in. Seriously, you are going to take that approach? He travelled for a considerable amount of time (how long? years? idk). Do you just suppose he travelled in circles around the hill Cumorah that whole time close to where the Lamanites were to give them ample opportunity to do him in? I certainly wouldn't.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Drifting wrote:He also hid all the horses and steel weapons before he set off...Which was a bit stupid considering he then had to complete his journey on foot and unarmed.
You made both those assumptions: 1) He made it on foot. I don't know that he did. 2) That he was unarmed. He was? I admit was a long distance to travel, but to state it was impossible is really overstating the case by a lot. We are still talking about the Book of Mormon here. The guys sailed from the Middle East in a ship.
Did he ride on tapir-back?
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Tobin wrote:You made both those assumptions: 1) He made it on foot. I don't know that he did. 2) That he was unarmed. He was? I admit was a long distance to travel, but to state it was impossible is really overstating the case by a lot. We are still talking about the Book of Mormon here. The guys sailed from the Middle East in a ship.
Did he ride on tapir-back?
We've already established that it was a magic carpet.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom