Horse and Chariots--Another Apologist Red Herring

[Guest]

LOL. We "know" no such thing. CFR. IT is "believed" is was added at a later date due to the fact it depicts a man on a horse and is not as discolored as other depictions on the rock.

No arrowheads discovered prior to 600 AD should suffice to verify what we "know".

http://www.thefurtrapper.com/anasazi.htm

http://www.cliffdwellingsmuseum.com/anasazi4.htm

http://www.gorp.com/parks-guide/travel- ... 67311.html

http://www.sangres.com/features/anasazi.htm

http://www.desertusa.com/ind1/du_peo_ana.html

http://www.cabrillo.edu/~crsmith/southwest.html

http://reocities.com/Yosemite/trails/1942/h_earl_3.html

http://archaeology.about.com/od/america ... meline.htm

http://books.google.ca/books? Anasazi America: Seventeen centuries on the Road to Center PLace by David E. Stuart Susan B. McKinsey p.38

http://www.anasazimystery.com/

Book. The Anasazi in a Changing Environment by George J Gumerman p.17

http://www.t-rat.com/Pages/ArrowheadChronology.html

http://studentreader.com/anasazi/ See Basketmaker period III

http://www.scholastic.com/teachers/article/anasazi

Book: New Mexico by Calvin Alexander Roberts, Susan A Roberts p. 9

LOL What are you talking about? The Clovis people (13,000 years ago) made arrowheads. Actually, they are very common. I have a few. The arrowhead and bow was NOT invented in 600 AD. And even if you were right, 600 AD is before Columbus arrived here making it a depiction of a pre-Columbian horse - proving my point.

[_Tobin]

HE BROUGHT UP A SUPPOSITION. He made a statement based on nothing more than his own opinion. There is no legitimate research on dating petroglyphs by its discoloration. If there is, CFR it.

Actually he said more then that. Go back and read it. I guess though you have nothing to show it as evidence for pre-columbian horses. Not surprising.
http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/date/web/index.html
Like I said, he has an interest in this stuff, and he gave you enough to go on, but you were not really interested in it though.

I understand perfectly what he said and I understand that he has an interest in this stuff. His opinion may even be informed, but it is still his opinion. He and I both know he has no idea when or who put that depiction there. He can speculate and I can speculate. There is no proof either way. That is why it is not good evidence or proof that there were pre-columbian horses, because it is ambiguous. And that is why I said it is merely conjecture on my part. And it is merely conjecture on his part as well (informed or not).

[_Themis]

LOL What are you talking about? The Clovis people (13,000 years ago) made arrowheads. Actually, they are very common. I have a few. The arrowhead and bow was NOT invented in 600 AD. And even if you were right, 600 AD is before Columbus arrived here making it a depiction of a pre-Columbian horse - proving my point.

I think he means arrowheads used with the bow. :)

[_Tobin]

LOL What are you talking about? The Clovis people (13,000 years ago) made arrowheads. Actually, they are very common. I have a few. The arrowhead and bow was NOT invented in 600 AD. And even if you were right, 600 AD is before Columbus arrived here making it a depiction of a pre-Columbian horse - proving my point.

I think he means arrowheads used with the bow. :)

I seriously doubt that. There have been arrowheads found all the way back to 64,000 years ago. The bow and arrow were invented long before recorded history started.

[_Themis]

seriously doubt that. There have been arrowheads found all the way back to 64,000 years ago. The bow and arrow were invented long before recorded history started.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~osa/learn/ancient/archery.htm

[_Tobin]

seriously doubt that. There have been arrowheads found all the way back to 64,000 years ago. The bow and arrow were invented long before recorded history started.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~osa/learn/ancient/archery.htm

I don't think anyone can definitively say. I looked at the website and it simpy just states that it was 500 AD when the bow and arrow as adopted by Indians in Iowa. However, there are examples of arrowheads in NA that are much older than that. Arrowheads are distinctive from fluted points (Folsoms) that attach to a atlatl. The best definitive answer is that the bow and arrows was introduced into the Americas around 2500 BC (and even that is up to debate), with estimates of when American Indians began using them being from 500-700AD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_archery You need to bear in mind though that these estimates are based on finds of arrowheads dated in those local regions and is a moving target (knocking the date back) as new finds are made.

[_Quasimodo]

LOL What are you talking about? The Clovis people (13,000 years ago) made arrowheads. Actually, they are very common. I have a few. The arrowhead and bow was NOT invented in 600 AD. And even if you were right, 600 AD is before Columbus arrived here making it a depiction of a pre-Columbian horse - proving my point.

More on petroglyphs later. No time tonight, but this caught my eye and I had to comment.

Tobin, you have just proven that you are making things up as you go along (as I suspected).

Clovis points are extremely rare and VERY valuable. None of them are arrow points. If you have a few, you need to call the Archaeology Department at UNLV Monday morning because you are the only person in the world that has ever found any.

How do you know that they are Clovis? Where did you find them? How about some photos? If you purchased them, you have been cheated.

[_Tobin]

LOL What are you talking about? The Clovis people (13,000 years ago) made arrowheads. Actually, they are very common. I have a few. The arrowhead and bow was NOT invented in 600 AD. And even if you were right, 600 AD is before Columbus arrived here making it a depiction of a pre-Columbian horse - proving my point.

More on petroglyphs later. No time tonight, but this caught my eye and I had to comment.

Tobin, you have just proven that you are making things up as you go along (as I suspected).

Clovis points are extremely rare and VERY valuable. None of them are arrow points. If you have a few, you need to call the Archaeology Department at UNLV Monday morning because you are the only person in the world that has ever found any.

How do you know that they are Clovis? Where did you find them? How about some photos? If you purchased them, you have been cheated.

Actually, you are misreading what I said. I was referring to stone flint arrowheads (which you can dig up almost anywhere). This is generally referred to as Clovis point technology because of how they are made. This type of technology was widely used through-out NA and some of earliest examples can be found near Clovis, New Mexico. But there are caches all over the country from Washington State to North Carolina to as far south as Venezuela. You are also incorrect in stating that these are very valuable and you can buy these types of things at a garage sale. In fact, they are very common and that means you really don't understand what you are talking about. Only verified early examples of Clovis points are valuable.

[_Themis]

I don't think anyone can definitively say.

LOL

[_Quasimodo]

Actually, you are misreading what I said. I was referring to stone flint arrowheads (which you can dig up almost anywhere). This is generally referred to as Clovis point technology because of how they are made. This type of technology was widely used through-out NA and some of earliest examples can be found near Clovis, New Mexico. But there are caches all over the country from Washington State to North Carolina to as far south as Venezuela. You are also incorrect in stating that these are very valuable and you can buy these types of things at a garage sale. In fact, they are very common and that means you really don't understand what you are talking about. Only verified early examples of Clovis points are valuable.

Total BS! As usual.

Once again, I'm tired of the crap. You know absolutely nothing about the subject. Play silly buggers with the others if you find it amusing, but I really don't want to spend the time arguing with someone that has no respect for the truth.