A scientific message for all

[_sheryl]

Hi Sheryl,

Are Christ and the Universe the same thing in your view or does Christ have some sort of 'otherness' that separates him from the Universe?

Hi Fence Sitter!

Christ is within and also beyond the Universe. Some call this manifest and unmanifest, so that some of Christ is manifest as not only this Universe, but all Universes, and all Cosmic Cycles. And some of Christ is unmanifest, thus hidden, or a mystery.

You might be familiar with these verses?

For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever.

yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;

but Christ is all and in all.

The problem we have in understanding is due to the delusion of separation. Instead of Christ being over there and creation over here, what actually occurred is more akin to creation flowing or outpouring in and through Christ, as though we are in the womb of God (which actually we are!).

And so Christ and all that has or will be created come from the same thing. This is why the analogies of trees and vines and blossoms. The kingdom of heaven is like the blossom on the tree of Christ, or vine of Christ.

But it is important to remember that the totality of the tree or vine is beyond our comprehension, all that 'exists' is the body of Christ. And so Christ is ever beyond us. The Infinite within and beyond.

Shalom!

Sheryl

[_Tarski]

Hi Sheryl,

Are Christ and the Universe the same thing in your view or does Christ have some sort of 'otherness' that separates him from the Universe?

Hi Fence Sitter!

Christ is within and also beyond the Universe. Some call this manifest and unmanifest, so that some of Christ is manifest as not only this Universe, but all Universes, and all Cosmic Cycles. And some of Christ is unmanifest, thus hidden, or a mystery.

You might be familiar with these verses?

For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever.

yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;

but Christ is all and in all.

The problem we have in understanding is due to the delusion of separation. Instead of Christ being over there and creation over here, what actually occurred is more akin to creation flowing or outpouring in and through Christ, as though we are in the womb of God (which actually we are!).

And so Christ and all that has or will be created come from the same thing. This is why the analogies of trees and vines and blossoms. The kingdom of heaven is like the blossom on the tree of Christ, or vine of Christ.

But it is important to remember that the totality of the tree or vine is beyond our comprehension, all that 'exists' is the body of Christ. And so Christ is ever beyond us. The Infinite within and beyond.

Shalom!

Sheryl

Everything you say is true except that it isn't Jesus son of Mary (who was crucified circa 30 AD), but rather Jon Anderson who is the all-being-master-of-time-space-and-dimension.
Jon Anderson is he through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

The reason you may not realize this is because Jon is ever beyond us.
(Don't be mislead by the tales of either the Bible or the Quran).

Keep in mind that Jon is both in us and us in him and he is both infinitely close and infinitely far.
Oh, and also 1=0.

[_Fence Sitter]

Hi Sheryl,

Are Christ and the Universe the same thing in your view or does Christ have some sort of 'otherness' that separates him from the Universe?

Hi Fence Sitter!

Christ is within and also beyond the Universe. Some call this manifest and unmanifest, so that some of Christ is manifest as not only this Universe, but all Universes, and all Cosmic Cycles. And some of Christ is unmanifest, thus hidden, or a mystery.

You might be familiar with these verses?

For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever.

yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;

but Christ is all and in all.

The problem we have in understanding is due to the delusion of separation. Instead of Christ being over there and creation over here, what actually occurred is more akin to creation flowing or outpouring in and through Christ, as though we are in the womb of God (which actually we are!).

And so Christ and all that has or will be created come from the same thing. This is why the analogies of trees and vines and blossoms. The kingdom of heaven is like the blossom on the tree of Christ, or vine of Christ.

But it is important to remember that the totality of the tree or vine is beyond our comprehension, all that 'exists' is the body of Christ. And so Christ is ever beyond us. The Infinite within and beyond.

Shalom!

Sheryl

Sheryl,

Forgive me but this is nonsense.

For example I have in front of me a dog. It has a smooth rubber spherical surface, is red in color, filled with air and when I drop it on the side walk it bounces back up to my hand. I know it is a dog because it is beyond my comprehension to fully understand it so it must be a dog.

[_sheryl]

Sheryl,

Forgive me but this is nonsense.

For example I have in front of me a dog. It has a smooth rubber spherical surface, is red in color, filled with air and when I drop it on the side walk it bounces back up to my hand. I know it is a dog because it is beyond my comprehension to fully understand it so it must be a dog.

There are a lot of people who have personal experience of this nonsense. ;)

So for what is for some nonsense is for others Truth. Perhaps these who call this nonsense do not know themselves, nor dog, nor rubber ball? They are stuck in surface experiences.

You know that the eyes simply detect light, and in an upside down pattern, and relay that information to the brain, who then gives form and logic, etc to the light images. So all we can say at best is that your mind calls what your eyes perceive 'dog'. The image in your mind is purely a figment of your imagination.

Sheryl

[_Themis]

There are a lot of people who have personal experience of this nonsense. ;)

That's also true for people who experience aliens, etc. Doesn't make it true. The body seems very capable of producing these expereinces on there own.

[_Fence Sitter]

Sheryl,

Forgive me but this is nonsense.

For example I have in front of me a dog. It has a smooth rubber spherical surface, is red in color, filled with air and when I drop it on the side walk it bounces back up to my hand. I know it is a dog because it is beyond my comprehension to fully understand it so it must be a dog.

There are a lot of people who have personal experience of this nonsense. ;)

So for what is for some nonsense is for others Truth. Perhaps these who call this nonsense do not know themselves, nor dog, nor rubber ball? They are stuck in surface experiences.

You know that the eyes simply detect light, and in an upside down pattern, and relay that information to the brain, who then gives form and logic, etc to the light images. So all we can say at best is that your mind calls what your eyes perceive 'dog'. The image in your mind is purely a figment of your imagination.

Sheryl

There are a lot of people who believe in Thetans.

[_Franktalk]

Many people believe that man can observe the creation and learn its secrets. So far man has learned many things and has made devices which would seem as magic just a few years ago. Let us now wander a little into the vast future of knowledge. Will man learn how to communicate directly with rocks or water and tell them to change state or move? Will man be able to command living cells to regenerate with just a thought? If we learn enough will we be able to transcend space and time so we can visit distant parts of the universe without the delays and barrier of the speed of light? If indeed we are on this path to understanding then science is on the path to embrace what we now call supernatural events as natural. Is it possible that our own lack of knowledge is limiting us to a small sphere of possibilities where a much larger sphere is possible? Why do we limit our self like we do? And why is it that those who say there are no limits are ridiculed? I have often thought that science is such a limited view of existence. Anyone who studies science knows the big leaps come from those who extend the barrier of understanding. So we honor these people then revert back to our limited views again.

[_Themis]

If indeed we are on this path to understanding then science is on the path to embrace what we now call supernatural events as natural. Is it possible that our own lack of knowledge is limiting us to a small sphere of possibilities where a much larger sphere is possible? Why do we limit our self like we do?

Huh? Science does not limit anything. It is a methodology. A methodology that helps to gain more accurate knowledge, and weed out bad ideas that are incorrect. Your problem is you want people to believe ideas that are already shown to be incorrect or are not testable.

And why is it that those who say there are no limits are ridiculed?

It's not coming from the scientific community. Don't blame them for saying something about bad ideas.

I have often thought that science is such a limited view of existence.

Not surprising you would, since you have ideas that are just plain wrong. This is usually why people like you get upset at the scientific community for providing evidence against certain cherished beliefs.

[_bcuzbcuz]

Many people believe that man can observe the creation and learn its secrets. So far man has learned many things and has made devices which would seem as magic just a few years ago. Let us now wander a little into the vast future of knowledge. Will man learn how to communicate directly with rocks or water and tell them to change state or move? Will man be able to command living cells to regenerate with just a thought? If we learn enough will we be able to transcend space and time so we can visit distant parts of the universe without the delays and barrier of the speed of light? If indeed we are on this path to understanding then science is on the path to embrace what we now call supernatural events as natural. Is it possible that our own lack of knowledge is limiting us to a small sphere of possibilities where a much larger sphere is possible? Why do we limit our self like we do? And why is it that those who say there are no limits are ridiculed? I have often thought that science is such a limited view of existence. Anyone who studies science knows the big leaps come from those who extend the barrier of understanding. So we honor these people then revert back to our limited views again.

Communicate with rocks? You may want to read "Talking Rocks: Geology and 10,000 Years of Native American Tradition in the Lake Superior Region" by Ron Morton and Carl Gawboy in Ron's conversation with Earth Walk.

Communicate with living cells? Read "Cell Talk" by John E. Upledger

Transcending space and time? "Time Machine" by H. G. Wells is always a good start. "Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" by Mark Twain or "Dancers At The End Of Time" by Michael Moorcock are good. For a good laugh read "Restaurant at the End of the Universe" by Douglas Adams. For a weird twist, try "Slaughteherhouse-Five" by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. Or any novel by Robert Heinlein, though I prefer "Stranger in a Strange Land"

I'm all for 'no limits'. But once I put the book down I know I've just taken a flight of fancy. Don't you?

[_Franktalk]

I'm all for 'no limits'. But once I put the book down I know I've just taken a flight of fancy. Don't you?

Not so sure. Some of the science fiction books of the past were actual glimpses into the future. Just because we can't imagine something today does not make it impossible. Most of science deals with things we already know about and have already studied. This makes a self defined box around itself.