The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

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_Drifting
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Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

Post by _Drifting »

Franktalk wrote:
Drifting wrote:And how have you changed the word around you as a result of this knowledge?


What?


I'm asking what difference this..

In my case I was a man of the world who fully embraced the life of the world. But one day I started to seek the answers to life's big questions. Why am I here, what exactly am I, Do I have a purpose, and is this all there is. That quest led me to faith after I cast off the world. So I do see both sides of this debate. I have lived both sides. I have left the natural man behind.


..has made, in any real sense, to the people around you.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Franktalk
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Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

Post by _Franktalk »

Drifting wrote:I'm asking what difference this..

..has made, in any real sense, to the people around you.


Do you mean "world"?
_Drifting
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Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

Post by _Drifting »

Franktalk wrote:
Drifting wrote:I'm asking what difference this..

..has made, in any real sense, to the people around you.


Do you mean "world"?


Yeah, I missed the 'l' oops, sorry.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Franktalk
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Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

Post by _Franktalk »

Drifting wrote:Yeah, I missed the 'l' oops, sorry.


I knew what you meant in the original post. I asked "what" in order for you to catch your mistake. You clearly did not until I made it obvious you should read what you wrote. I have my doubts that I could write anything that will be clear to you or make any difference what so ever. I have to ask what would be the purpose in finding out about my past? It would serve no purpose at all. As to my beliefs now I have many posts in a few websites which describe them. So far I have written around 5000 pages worth of comments. Whole pages not the little snips that most write. So I have not hidden what I believe. But my understanding has changed over time as I have added to my knowledge of doctrine and the whole of scripture.
_Drifting
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Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

Post by _Drifting »

Franktalk wrote:
Drifting wrote:Yeah, I missed the 'l' oops, sorry.


I knew what you meant in the original post. I asked "what" in order for you to catch your mistake. You clearly did not until I made it obvious you should read what you wrote.

Hmmm...

I have my doubts that I could write anything that will be clear to you or make any difference what so ever. I have to ask what would be the purpose in finding out about my past? It would serve no purpose at all. As to my beliefs now I have many posts in a few websites which describe them. So far I have written around 5000 pages worth of comments. Whole pages not the little snips that most write. So I have not hidden what I believe. But my understanding has changed over time as I have added to my knowledge of doctrine and the whole of scripture.


I'm not asking about your belief. I'm asking what positive difference that your turning to faith has made to the people around you, if any?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Franktalk
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Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

Post by _Franktalk »

Drifting wrote:I'm not asking about your belief. I'm asking what positive difference that your turning to faith has made to the people around you, if any?


Let me instead point out things I would not say to people. Things in which others on this board think is perfectly acceptable. Things which in my eyes would cause a problem with anyone who seeks truth.

"Especially as the commandment of polygamy was specifically given to facilitate the knocking up of the wives to 'spread seed'. I guess it's yet another commandment Joseph broke..."

No matter what one feels about the truth of any religion there should be some level of respect for those who are considered Holy by others. I can see that this person has no such respect at all.

"Except when God tells you things that aren't consistent with what the Church teaches. Then He's lying."

Here we see how easy it is to call God names. I am not so sure that this is helpful to people who seek some kind of spiritual path.

"Your questions are making my head hurt and grey stuff is seeping out of my nose....Oh wait...it's all a myth. Pain gone, carry on."

Calling someones faith a myth is the worst kind of judgment. I am sure I don't do this anymore.

"Frank, I've amended the scripture so it now literally says what you want it to say."

Changing scripture to make a point is disrespectful to scripture and the person of faith. I try and stick to the issues.

"I wasn't aware that Jesus wrote anything down himself. So as such, the New Testament is just a second hand account based on what people claim Jesus cited."

To ignore a core belief of inspired writing is begging for an argument but brings nothing to any discussion.

"In the light of today's society the language of the Book of Mormon etc and the Priesthood Ban and the comments of some senior Church leaders, including Prophets, can be classed as racist - even if society didn't see it that way back then."

Even in my worldly days I was not racist. These views again beg for conflict and don't bring anyone to a better understanding.

"I have faith in science.

I demonstrate this faith every time I follow a medical practitioners advice.
My faith is reinforced by the rewards I receive as a result of my obedience to the advice.

In fact faith in science produces a demonstrably higher success rate of reward than faith in religion. One can see, for the most part, scientific theories becoming more and more accurate and more consistent with other evidences over time. On the other hand - one can see, for the most part, religious theories becoming less and less accurate and less consistent with other evidences over time.

When it comes down to a choice science wins everytime."


Here we see a statement of faith. I have no problem with anyone making a statement of faith. It allows all who read to see inside of the person to see who they really are.

I think I can safely say that I have not spread around this king of mindless junk even when I walked in the world. I still had respect for people and their ideas. So maybe I have not had that great an effect on people after I started my walk in faith. People tell me that I am a different person. I have assumed that to be a good thing.
_Roger Morrison
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Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

Post by _Roger Morrison »

Roger Morrison wrote:Hey Frank Talker,
"You were a man of the world." Please describe such a person to me. You say you are no longer a natural man. Then what kind of a man are you?

I know it is said, "the natural man is an enemy to God." which i find very hard to understand??? Man was (supposedly) designed & created by God, Right? There seems a great inconsistency here??? God created man to serve God, and the strong man to help the weak men ... (then some bozo comes up with that piece of fiction about the "natural man" being a bad-guy and all the sheep follow bleating sorrowfully for being a sinner. . .
Playing into the hands of those who have no understanding of Jesusism (new word that better describes Jesus' teachings) They then do the sack-cloth & self denigration things to show themselves worthy of God's love. Which is said to be unconditional!!!
WOW!! Talk about a "Falling away!" :wink:

Gotta go! This is toooo outathisworld :confused:



BACK AGAIN FRANK! WENT FOR A WALK. CLEARED MY MIND, SORT-OF...
Now I am really looking forward to your answers to my questions Please don't use 'scriptures' to justify yourself.
Just a straight answers. . .
Roger
_Franktalk
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Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

Post by _Franktalk »

Roger Morrison wrote:BACK AGAIN FRANK! WENT FOR A WALK. CLEARED MY MIND, SORT-OF...
Now I am really looking forward to your answers to my questions Please don't use 'scriptures' to justify yourself.
Just a straight answers. . .
Roger


Have a good night. Maybe in time we will chat.
_Drifting
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Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

Post by _Drifting »

Franktalk wrote:So maybe I have not had that great an effect on people after I started my walk in faith.


And that's my point.

Faith (spirituality) is a pointless and selfish emotion unless and until it drives actions that are of positive benefit beyond the individual. The fact that you cannot identify any positive actions that you now take means your faith, your spirituality, is little more than an internal comfort blanket.

Now I don't have faith, nor spirituality, as you correctly point out.
I do, however, have actions and deeds that positively and generously (I'm not specifically talking about financial generosity) impact on my family, friends, colleagues, neighbours, acquaintances and even people I actively dislike (and who dislike me). This is driven by an inbuilt human nature to help those people around me if I can.

Now you obviously take exception to things I say and the way I say them. That's fair enough. I take exception to those that preach but don't act - those people, in my book, are hypocrites.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Franktalk
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Re: The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

Post by _Franktalk »

Drifting wrote:Faith (spirituality) is a pointless and selfish emotion unless and until it drives actions that are of positive benefit beyond the individual. The fact that you cannot identify any positive actions that you now take means your faith, your spirituality, is little more than an internal comfort blanket.


I am not so sure of that. I used to have thoughts about being a serial killer and taking out all those who use a "D" in their name on the internet. But of late I find I no longer have that urge. But who knows what will happen in the future. Maybe I will fall from faith like so many on these boards. If that happens maybe you can get some of that change in behavior you seek.
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