Tobin wrote:Yes, and there is no evidence that it came from Siberia. There is a theory it came from Europe however. I tend to think flying saucers brought it myself.
Or with the help of The Technicolor Time Machine by the Viking Ottar (Bjarni Herjólfsson) and sex goddess movie star Slithey Tove (Gudrid) :
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Yes, and there is no evidence that it came from Siberia. There is a theory it came from Europe however. I tend to think flying saucers brought it myself.
Themis, update your information and read the wiki I linked.
"The main occurrence of X in Asia discovered so far is in the Altay people in Southwestern Siberia, and detailed examination has shown that the Altaian sequences are all almost identical (haplogroup X2e), suggesting that they arrived in the area probably from the South Caucasus more recently than 5,000 BP." <- see that year!?!
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote: Themis, update your information and read the wiki I linked.
"The main occurrence of X in Asia discovered so far is in the Altay people in Southwestern Siberia, and detailed examination has shown that the Altaian sequences are all almost identical (haplogroup X2e), suggesting that they arrived in the area probably from the South Caucasus more recently than 5,000 BP." <- see that year!?!
Don't have time right now, but keep reading. I think you are missing the important information. by the way 5900 BP is irrelevant.
jo1952 wrote: The DVD "The Lost Civilizations of North America"; the downloadable book from Google "The Mound Builders"; the book "Ancient Monuments of the Mississippi Valley" by EG Squier and EH Davis published in 1848 (this one may be difficult to track down; however, it does exist, and is one of the sources of information provided in the DVD); as well as other publications mentioned in the DVD.
As a side note, there is a lost civilization which has in recent years been uncovered with the name of Gobekli Tepe in Turkey. Though I do not not believe the dating methods used to determine the age of this civilization site are accurate, the point is that it remained hidden in plain sight for thousands of years. Similarly, the city of Ninevah remained hidden for thousands of years as well; and was, in fact, considered to by a mythical city by historians and critics of the Bible for 100's of years before its discovery in the 1800's. Just some food for thought for those who think that the absence of physical evidence is somehow proof of non-existence when it is something you do not want to believe.
Love,
jo
Lets keep things simple and provide one piece of evidence you like, and then we can go from there. by the way I did not change beliefs out of any desire to not believe LDS truth claims. I wanted to believe them. Also absence of evidence in some cases is not evidence of absence, while in other cases it is evidence of absence. You might want to look it up to learn why.
I guess Jo has decided not to provide us with any evidence for her claims. I hope tobin has done some more reading on Haplogroup X and why fair and farms do not consider it to be evidence of any ancient Israelite group in the Americas.
Themis wrote:I guess Jo has decided not to provide us with any evidence for her claims. I hope tobin has done some more reading on Haplogroup X and why fair and farms do not consider it to be evidence of any ancient Israelite group in the Americas.
Themis, the 5,000 BP is important. If the Haplogroup X came from Siberia, as was claimed, and the source for it did not arrive till after 5,000 BP, it can not be the source. So, I guess we are back to my theory that it was flying saucers.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Themis wrote:I guess Jo has decided not to provide us with any evidence for her claims. I hope tobin has done some more reading on Haplogroup X and why fair and farms do not consider it to be evidence of any ancient Israelite group in the Americas.
Themis, the 5,000 BP is important. If the Haplogroup X came from Siberia, as was claimed, and the source for it did not arrive till after 5,000 BP, it can not be the source. So, I guess we are back to my theory that it was flying saucers.
Interesting how you stop reading when you think it says something you like. You might try keep reading. Particularly the paragraphs after 5000 BP. There is more then one theory, and the European one is interesting, but you also miss that halogroup X is still to early to be from some group in the middle east ~2500 years ago. If you study this branch of science a little more, you may also realize that there are a number of problems outside of halogroup X.
Themis wrote:Interesting how you stop reading when you think it says something you like. You might try keep reading. Particularly the paragraphs after 5000 BP. There is more then one theory, and the European one is interesting, but you also miss that halogroup X is still to early to be from some group in the middle east ~2500 years ago. If you study this branch of science a little more, you may also realize that there are a number of problems outside of halogroup X.
You are under the impression that I was using it as proof the Book of Mormon was true. I am not nor did I make any such claim. I brought it up to point out that this science is very new, but it isn't definitive and if you do use it - you need to explain how it got there. Using this kind of evidence when there is a haplogroup X that appears in NA at an even earlier date from even more improbable locations does not make it great evidence. It might be good evidence of flying saucers however. The fact is, we do not really understand that well how NA was populated and from where.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:You are under the impression that I was using it as proof the Book of Mormon was true. I am not nor did I make any such claim. I brought it up to point out that this science is very new, but it isn't definitive and if you do use it - you need to explain how it got there. Using this kind of evidence when there is a haplogroup X that appears in NA at an even earlier date from even more improbable locations does not make it great evidence. It might be good evidence of flying saucers however. The fact is, we do not really understand that well how NA was populated and from where.
It's some of the apologists who want to use it incorrectly as evidence for the Book of Mormon. We do have an idea of time lines, and where they came from. Halogroup X is only represents a small amount of the total. It's been known long before DNA was understood that they came over the Bering strait. Sure there are different theories about how(by land or boat along the coast), or whether they were more then one movement, and even one about coming from Europe at the last ice age. there is no evidence to date about any groups coming in the last 2-4 thousands years from the middle east.
The obvious answer to the OP is that there never were any Book of Mormon populations. It was a fictional story invented in the early 1800's, based on the popular thinking of the day.
by the way I noticed when it was asserted I think by ldsfaqs that the Book of Mormon mentions others, no one ever showed where it does.
Themis wrote:I guess Jo has decided not to provide us with any evidence for her claims. I hope tobin has done some more reading on Haplogroup X and why fair and farms do not consider it to be evidence of any ancient Israelite group in the Americas.
Actually, I have given it twice so far in this thread.
