Stay Strong Saints

[_Themis]

Yes, Themis, I think I do. Joseph, I think for obvious reasons, wanted to keep the practice of polygamy secret, and it was kept secret, for the most part for many years. Perhaps, this was necessary for the survival of the church itself. Of course, as you may imagine, when this was finally revealed to the church after it was practiced already for a number of years, it led to a problem, and as if that wasn't bad enough, since polygamy itself was and is a controversial subject, this also added fuel to the fire.

Do you think this is the major factor that bothers members, or is there other reasons? I admit people may not like the idea of secrecy since it fits with the someone doing it for personal reasons.

[_gdemetz]

That is a good question. I have observed that it definitely bothers some women in the church much more than men, as you may imagine. There are a lot of Mormons that don't understand much deep Mormon doctrine. Recently a young married lady in the church asked me if there would be polygamy in the millenium, and I told her yes (see Isaiah 4:1). Later, she told me that she and her husband had quarreled about that, and then I asked her frankly, would you rather that you didn't know, or would you prefer to know this beforehand? She answered that she would really rather know. I think that she may be OK with the idea now.

[_Drifting]

That is a good question. I have observed that it definitely bothers some women in the church much more than men, as you may imagine. There are a lot of Mormons that don't understand much deep Mormon doctrine. Recently a young married lady in the church asked me if there would be polygamy in the millenium, and I told her yes (see Isaiah 4:1). Later, she told me that she and her husband had quarreled about that, and then I asked her frankly, would you rather that you didn't know, or would you prefer to know this beforehand? She answered that she would really rather know. I think that she may be OK with the idea now.

Do you think polyandry will be lived in the millennium as it was during the restoration period of the Church?

[_bcspace]

As a member, for me, personally, the problem with polygamy is the concept of what an eternal marriage should be. There is an intimacy between an husband and wife that is vastly different from any other type of bond. I am not talking about physical intimacy, although that is part of it.

Who knows what Gods can accomplish? If it's possible to be in love with more than one person at a time in this life, why can't Gods establish multiple relationships replete with the intimacy you speak of?

[Guest]

That is a good question. I have observed that it definitely bothers some women in the church much more than men, as you may imagine. There are a lot of Mormons that don't understand much deep Mormon doctrine. Recently a young married lady in the church asked me if there would be polygamy in the millenium, and I told her yes (see Isaiah 4:1). Later, she told me that she and her husband had quarreled about that, and then I asked her frankly, would you rather that you didn't know, or would you prefer to know this beforehand? She answered that she would really rather know. I think that she may be OK with the idea now.

Do you think polyandry will be lived in the millennium as it was during the restoration period of the Church?

You're giving him a clue. gdemetz, I still not sure if you understand why specifically why it bothers many members, and yes more women then men. It's not just simply polygamy, and about specific of what was going on. If you are really not sure I can list many reasons why. It is those reasons you would need to address if you ever want to help members deal with what bothers them.

[_Themis]

Who knows what Gods can accomplish? If it's possible to be in love with more than one person at a time in this life, why can't Gods establish multiple relationships replete with the intimacy you speak of?

I think we can love intimately more then one person. You are suggesting a kind of open marriage concept to celestial polygamy. The problem I think most have is in regards to what Joseph was doing and whether it fits with what they think God would authorize.

[_thews]

Yes, sometimes not understanding church doctrines can be a big problem.

A bigger problem would be concocting a reverse engineered analogy in an attempt to explain what is obviously not true.

Some people have left the church because they didn't understand polygamy. That's sad! My grandmother was so against me joining the chuch for that very reason. So, I proceeded to explain to her the 12th chapter of Numbers which gives an account of a revelation Moses received to marry another wife, and Moses sister Miriam spoke against it, just as many spoke agaist the revelation Joseph Smith received to practice polygamy! I then ask my grandmother; what do you think? Do you think God just woke up from a sleep one day and decided that this is a good day for polygamy? Or, perhaps you think that God had to repent for allowing polygamy when He was a younger God and didn't know any better? The real truth is that God knows what is best for us, and whether or not it is the right time for polygamy, and as the scriptures state, He will reveal it to His servants the prophets if it is His will for us to practice it (see Amos 3:7).

You can't be serious with this... seriously. "God" is all powerful and not some God in the process of growing up. When you say the "time is right for polygamy" are you questioning Joseph Smith as a prophet of God? D&C 10 clearly states you will be damned for not practicing polygamy in heaven. According to Joseph Smith, God threatened him with a flaming sword if he failed to institute polygamy. You have two options here, one is to blame God for dropping the ball, and the other is to blame Joseph Smith. You used "That's sad!" in the above. You know what I find sad? You can't just look at the evidence and even consider Joseph Smith was lying.

Some people have left the church when they have found out that the prophets have taught that the "virgin birth" was, basically, not true (see "Mormon Doctrine", "Son of God"), and that is also sad!

What is so sad about acknowledging the truth vs. a lie?

One can not be saved in ignorance, and if someone does not understand the doctrines and practices of the church, such as many in the temple (Weren't many strange things done in Moses' time in and around the tabernacle?), they should not just give up and quit, which is exactly what Satan wants!

How do you know what Satan wants? Did you ever consider Satan wants Mormonism because it teaches a religion from a false prophet of God?

Instead, they should council with their leaders, study the scriptures, pray, remain faithful, and trust in God to reveal all things to them in time!

Following your own advice, you will be saved in ignorance.

[_Yoda]

I would like to examine the scripture in Numbers 12 a little more carefully:

Chapter 12
Aaron and Miriam complain against Moses, the most meek of all men—The Lord promises to speak to Moses mouth to mouth and to reveal to him his similitude—Miriam becomes leprous for a week.

 1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.

 2 And they said, Hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the Lord heard it.

 3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)

 4 And the Lord spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.

 5 And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.

 6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

 7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

 8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

 9 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against them; and he departed.

 10 And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.

 11 And Aaron said unto Moses, Alas, my lord, I beseech thee, lay not the sin upon us, wherein we have done foolishly, and wherein we have sinned.

 12 Let her not be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother’s womb.

 13 And Moses cried unto the Lord, saying, Heal her now, O God, I beseech thee.

 14 ¶And the Lord said unto Moses, If her father had but spit in her face, should she not be ashamed seven days? let her be shut out from the camp seven days, and after that let her be received in again.

 15 And Miriam was shut out from the camp seven days: and the people journeyed not till Miriam was brought in again.

 16 And afterward the people removed from Hazeroth, and pitched in the wilderness of Paran.

First of all, it does not appear that the Lord commanded Moses to take the Ethopian woman as a wife. It simply states that Aaron and Miriam were upset because he did so.

You have to remember that during this time, polygamy was the cultural norm. Polygamy was how men continued their family tree. It was also how more women were taken care of. Women did not have occupations and support themselves the way they do now.

It seemed to me that Miriam and Aaron were more upset about Moses choosing to marry an Ethopian, rather than the fact that he took a second wife.

It was the looking down upon the race of the Ethopian that offended God...not the fact that they were upset with Moses obtaining a second wife.

I am listening to Conference, so I will comment more, later.

[_Tarski]

Yes, Themis, I think I do. Joseph, I think for obvious reasons, wanted to keep the practice of polygamy secret.

Truer words were never spoken.

[_gdemetz]

The 132nd section of Doctrine and Covenants explains God's views on polygamy, including Moses practice of it. Surely God would have had these prophets stop the practice it it were wrong or immoral! And, He doesn't change His mind about things as many people do. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. If the same circumstances exist, the He will allow it just as He did before! BC, don't worry; when you make it to exaltation, you will be stripped of all jealousy and envy then.