Blasphemy or Biblical?

[_Buffalo]

...You started with a strawman, and your reasoning degenerated from there. Who is arguing that "consciousness is created by chemistry" exactly?

strawman? what strawman?
....if only you had a brain



The conscious being a chemical reaction product was a given, by me......so, why was it a given?
simple..because if you do not believe in the supernatural then the consciousness must be natural, and as such it must be an adherent to natural laws. Now, if you consider the consciousness to be a product of something other than the neuro-chemical processes that occur in the brain, then please, provide your proof and evidence that it is....but wait...we already know your position....no straw needed

It all comes back to the brain - the one and only source of consciousness.

viewtopic.php?p=577330#p577330

...or would you rather revise your position and rely on the old standard "we don't know yet" defense...which, my friend, means the "supernatural"....but your faith is admirable.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supernatural

unless you are proposing some sort of other reality that is neither supernatural nor observable/visible?

Nevertheless, you lose.

Again, you don't seem to be addressing anyone's arguments but your own. To hear you tell it, scientists believe the skull acts as some sort of bone beaker, full of some cocktail of bubbling chemicals. The brain is not a flagon of chemicals. It is a highly complex organ. When you talk about consciousness as a "chemical reaction" you're not describing anyone's scientific viewpoint.

If you'd care to try to educate yourself quickly on how the brain works and start again, I'd be all ears. :)

[_gdemetz]

I was not necessarily referring to NDE's, I stated OBE's. Only a part of these are NDE's. There are many recorded cases regarding this subject. In one case (an NDE), a feeble elderly lady was revived at the hospital and she told the doctors that she had this experience, and while her spirit left her body she saw a red shoe on top of the hospital roof, which was a number of stories high. Later, out of curiosity, one doctor had a young orderly climb outside the building to the top of the roof, and he found the red shoe. There have been so many documented cases like this, but the secular "know it all's" theorize that it was all in their minds. Yea, right! Try to tell that to someone who has really had that experience! There is also evidence from another source, and that is demonic possession. Check the following reference out from my next message!

[_gdemetz]

Check out this article by Richard E. Gallagher, M.D., a board certified psychiatrist. from the "New Oxford Review" entitled, "Among the Many Counterfeits, A Case of Demonic Possession."

[_ludwigm]

There have been so many documented cases like this, but the secular "know it all's" theorize that it was all in their minds. Yea, right! Try to tell that to someone who has really had that experience! There is also evidence from another source, and that is demonic possession...

I've identified You, and here and now I reveal it! I may risk the banning...

- you have played major league baseball with the St. Louis Cardinals
- you was one of only six in your 1000-man combat group who survived World War II, and was the only one of the six survivors who wasn't wounded
- you was the sole survivor among 11 infantrymen in a 100-yard race against death, during which one burst of machine-gun fire ripped your right boot off, another tore off your ammunition and canteen belt and yet another split your helmet in half—all without wounding you
- your best friend died in your arms from serious injuries sustained in a battle on Okinawa

OK, I know your stories are comparable the parables of Jesus - although they are not true stories, they are nevertheless valuable means of teaching gospel principles.

[_gdemetz]

I think Dr. Gallagher would love to see you!

[_ludwigm]

Check out this article by Richard E. Gallagher, M.D., a board certified psychiatrist. from the "New Oxford Review" entitled, "Among the Many Counterfeits, A Case of Demonic Possession."

Malarkey.

[_gdemetz]

"You have eyes, but you do not see." You have ears, but you do not hear." Jesus Christ

[_Drifting]

I was not necessarily referring to NDE's, I stated OBE's. Only a part of these are NDE's. There are many recorded cases regarding this subject. In one case (an NDE), a feeble elderly lady was revived at the hospital and she told the doctors that she had this experience, and while her spirit left her body she saw a red shoe on top of the hospital roof, which was a number of stories high. Later, out of curiosity, one doctor had a young orderly climb outside the building to the top of the roof, and he found the red shoe. There have been so many documented cases like this, but the secular "know it all's" theorize that it was all in their minds. Yea, right! Try to tell that to someone who has really had that experience! There is also evidence from another source, and that is demonic possession. Check the following reference out from my next message!

gdemetz, when people listened to Paul H. Dunn tell his war and baseball stories, they felt the spirit confirm to them that he was not only telling the truth but that he was literally a man speaking with the God. Not just one or two people, whole congregations.

When someone who didn't have a vested interest in believing him bothered to check, guess what...

What other people tell us is not necessarily reliable, even when you think the Holy Ghost has confirmed it as reliable.

NDE's/OBE's are hard for anyone to satisfactorily explain to me because, quite simply, I've never had one. Based on the evidence available what I can say is that if NDE's/OBE's are evidence of an afterlife, then that afterlife involves floating around buildings finding shoes.

[_gdemetz]

Oh, there is much more to it than that. That was merely a short temporary trip by her spirit which established to her, and hopefully the curious doctor also, the reality of her spirit.

[_Drifting]

Oh, there is much more to it than that. That was merely a short temporary trip by her spirit which established to her, and hopefully the curious doctor also, the reality of her spirit.

Would you place as much credibility in NDE/OBE's if the people having them reported something that was inconsistent with the beliefs you already hold?

For instance, in the studies of these phenomenon some people relate experiences of the nature of your example. However, in all the studies done 80/90% of people who suffer the conditions that generate NDE/OBE's experience nothing. Just sleep and blackness. So why do you accept the minority view and discount the vast majority view - it is because it confirms something that you want to be true.