Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

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_bcuzbcuz
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _bcuzbcuz »

gdemetz wrote:Why do you think that there are many with PHD's in science who agree with me? Everybody picks their own flavor of scientist, I guess.


I have no idea how many PhD's can be listed for this OP, on either side to prove or disprove glass and steel in the Book of Mormon or support or disagree with the exodus out of Egypt. Usually collecting a number of names for a list proves nothing.

But I suggest you look up "Project Steve", both for how it came about, its tongue in cheek approach to just this type of issue, and how it has evolved. If you're not acquainted with it, the project began as a lark. A pro-creation site listed a dozen or so names of PhD's who believed in the young earth theory. To counter the list, a few scientists, who happened to have the name 'Steve' and were biologists, started to find out how many 'Steve's (Stephanie's, Stefan's, Esteban's etc) who believed in evolution, would sign a counter list.

As of April 2012 "Project Steve" has 1200 names. Each of the signatories must agree to:

Evolution is a vital, well-supported, unifying principle of the biological sciences, and the scientific evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of the idea that all living things share a common ancestry. Although there are legitimate debates about the patterns and processes of evolution, there is no serious scientific doubt that evolution occurred or that natural selection is a major mechanism in its occurrence. It is scientifically inappropriate and pedagogically irresponsible for creationist pseudoscience, including but not limited to "intelligent design," to be introduced into the science curricula of our nation's public schools.

Inspired by Project Steve, and motivated by media coverage of the Discovery Institute's "Dissent From Darwinism" list, during the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District case, R. Joe Brandon initiated a four-day, word-of-mouth petition of scientists in support of evolution in October 2005. During the four-day drive A Scientific Support For Darwinism And For Public Schools Not To Teach Intelligent Design As Science gathered 7733 signatures of verifiable scientists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Steve

But the bigger list doesn't win. "We did not wish to mislead the public into thinking that scientific issues are decided by who has the longer list of scientists!"
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC
_Themis
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Themis »

gdemetz wrote:Why do you think that there are many with PHD's in science who agree with me? Everybody picks their own flavor of scientist, I guess.


I have only seen a handful. That is very small based on how many there are. You ask why, but ignore that the few who support what you believe also have the same beliefs as you, while the rest have a variety of different beliefs including Christians who say the evidence does not support a global flood. Why would fellow Christians with Phds in the hard sciences say this. Why are there no scientists outside of Christianity that support what you believe. If their really is evidence you would think some of them would say hey we see evidence of a large flood all over the earth. This is because there really is not any evidence for a global flood, and mountains of it against. This evidence has not been complied to prove it wrong, but what has been learned by just trying to understand the world around us. Every piece of evidence you think supports a global flood that you brought up has been dealt with. If you want to bring up more feel free. I brought up the erratics and why it is not evidence of a global flood. Your problem again is that you have already made conclusions before even coming into the discussion, and are not interested in finding out if you are wrong. This is why you take no time to learn from the scientific community some basic science.
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_gdemetz
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _gdemetz »

There are much more than a few. There are a lot, and I do take time to look at both sides, although I admit that sometimes it gets a bit over my head from both sides.
_ludwigm
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _ludwigm »

From this moment on, we have one more account of creation.

Image

Ok, it is a little phallocratic...
Warning: searching "phallocracy" on answers.com leads to http://www.answers.com/topic/radical-feminism
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_Themis
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Themis »

gdemetz wrote:There are much more than a few.


More then 3, yes. You miss the point though, and you should really think about why the vast majority do not. Why are most Christians who have Phds in the hard sciences not supportive of these supposed evidences?

There are a lot, and I do take time to look at both sides, although I admit that sometimes it gets a bit over my head from both sides.


Real science is not that hard to learn if you really want to. I suggest you forget about the flood and such and just start to learn about geology, physics, biology, from some university texts. Get them from BYU if you like. Talk to LDS biologists or geologists and ask them questions. Ask them about dating methods and why they are considered accurate methods of determining when certain events happened in the past like the separation of the continents.
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_bcuzbcuz
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _bcuzbcuz »

Themis wrote:
Real science is not that hard to learn if you really want to. I suggest you forget about the flood and such and just start to learn about geology, physics, biology, from some university texts. Get them from BYU if you like. Talk to LDS biologists or geologists and ask them questions. Ask them about dating methods and why they are considered accurate methods of determining when certain events happened in the past like the separation of the continents.


But real science presents a problem. Science encourages analytical thinking. Intuitive thinking and science are not good companions.

http://www.ts-si.org/the-dialogue/31565 ... ous-belief

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Analyt ... story.html

"Analytic Thinking Promotes Religious Disbelief" by Will M. Gervais and Ara Norenzayan, UBC, Canada
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC
_gdemetz
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _gdemetz »

Yea, I'm trying to learn more about all these things.
_Drifting
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Drifting »

gdemetz wrote:Yea, I'm trying to learn more about all these things.



How have your beliefs changed in light of the things you are learning or are you just accommodating your new found knowledge into what you already believe by 'shoe horning' it in?
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_gdemetz
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _gdemetz »

I would say that basically they haven't. I still side with Christ and that flavor of scientist.
_Drifting
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Drifting »

gdemetz wrote:I would say that basically they haven't. I still side with Christ and that flavor of scientist.


Exactly.
You are not interested in gaining the truth, just in reinforcing what you currently believe is the truth.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
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