Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[Res Ipsa]

The messages I read were ambiguous at best. John said "Please leave" which can be interpreted as "Please leave our relationship" or "Please leave Open Stories Foundation." Only John and Rosebud can know what was meant.

YES!

Again: both John and Rosebud were supposed to resign and be rehired as private contractors. Rosebud did not like her contract. Of course, she had only been employed there for 8 months and it was not unreasonable to suppose that 8-month employment did not entail the ability to set the terms of her future responsibilities to her exact liking. That said, Open Stories Foundation might have tried harder to appease the crazy person. I think they underestimated exactly how commitedly unhinged this nut job is when they calculated what to do about her. She really was prepared to scorch the earth and set herself on fire at the same time. That threat was not merely bluster.

Tiny organizations aren't able to do what needs to be done. In a bigger organization, the two people involved can be organizationally or even physically separated. Then, if one keeps pursuing the relationship, the company can use its anti-harassment policies to address the situation. John didn't leave the board any good options when he stuck up a relationship with an employee that he had supervisory control over. Changing an employee's status because of a consensual affair with a supervisor employment status was an unfair outcome. And you're dead right -- the organization was damn lucky to get away with how they handled it.

[lapliamo]

All that said, I am really tired of the drama and vendettas. People suck.

Between this thread and the numerous and lengthy posts on r/exmormon, I'm about done with letting this story bounce around in my head. I'm not trying to "...give Brother Dehlin a break". I'm simply done with the hope of getting any meaningful and specific allegations After watching the Mormonism Live show, it's obvious who is being transparent in this situation.

This whole story is tiring. Even if I were to grant that every allegation were proved to be true, John (a much as I appreciate his work) is not ex or post Mormonism.

[drumdude]

And you're dead right -- the organization was damn lucky to get away with how they handled it.

They didn't get away with it, John Dehlin and Open Stories Foundation have been publicly shamed about the entire affair. Anyone who follows Mormon Stories now knows John had an emotional affair and cheated on his wife. If you mean legally, there was never any danger of losing a sexual harassment lawsuit because there wasn't any evidence of sexual harassment. Sexual harassment may mean almost anything and everything in common discussion, but legally it is strictly defined.

[jpatterson]

YES!

Again: both John and Rosebud were supposed to resign and be rehired as private contractors. Rosebud did not like her contract.

No, John and Rosebud were asked to resign with the option to reapply. There was no promise made of re-hiring.

If you believe you're being sexually harassed any lawyer worth their salt will tell you not to resign.

It's obvious what John/Joanna were trying to do: get Rosebud to resign to get rid of her and torpedo her case.

[Res Ipsa]

And you're dead right -- the organization was damn lucky to get away with how they handled it.

They didn't get away with it, John Dehlin and Open Stories Foundation have been publicly shamed about the entire affair. Anyone who follows Mormon Stories now knows John had an emotional affair and cheated on his wife. If you mean legally, there was never any danger of losing a sexual harassment lawsuit because there wasn't any evidence of sexual harassment. Sexual harassment may mean almost anything and everything in common discussion, but legally it is strictly defined.

There’s more to employment law than sexual harassment. The concern would be retaliation. I’m assuming someone had the good sense to consult an employment lawyer before they requested that she resign and the fired her when she refused. Anybody know offhand whether Utah discrimination statutes apply to small employers?

[Res Ipsa]

YES!

Again: both John and Rosebud were supposed to resign and be rehired as private contractors. Rosebud did not like her contract.

No, John and Rosebud were asked to resign with the option to reapply. There was no promise made of re-hiring.

If you believe you're being sexually harassed any lawyer worth their salt will tell you not to resign.

It's obvious what John/Joanna were trying to do: get Rosebud to resign to get rid of her and torpedo her case.

Why do you think resigning would affect a sexual harassment claim?

[Res Ipsa]

They didn't get away with it, John Dehlin and Open Stories Foundation have been publicly shamed about the entire affair. Anyone who follows Mormon Stories now knows John had an emotional affair and cheated on his wife. If you mean legally, there was never any danger of losing a sexual harassment lawsuit because there wasn't any evidence of sexual harassment. Sexual harassment may mean almost anything and everything in common discussion, but legally it is strictly defined.

There’s more to employment law than sexual harassment. The concern would be retaliation. I’m assuming someone had the good sense to consult an employment lawyer before they requested that she resign and the fired her when she refused. Anybody know offhand whether Utah discrimination statutes apply to small employers?

ETA: Quick Google says 15 employee minimum. https://laborcommission.utah.gov/divisi ... imination/

And the same for federal law. https://www.eeoc.gov/employers/small-bu ... quirements

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

It's obvious what John/Joanna were trying to do: get Rosebud to resign to get rid of her and torpedo her case.

Pure speculation. You got any proof to substantiate your allegation? Oh. Wait.

edit: Her “case.” You mean the one she withdrew? Oh.

- Doc

[jpatterson]

I’m assuming someone had the good sense to consult an employment lawyer before they requested that she resign and the fired her when she refused.

Well, according to one board member (who I won't name), Joanna and John tried to hire one lawyer to pressure Anne to resign and they refused because it would have been unethical and opened them up for exposure, so they had to go shopping.

[consiglieri]

I’m convinced