Blasphemy or Biblical?

[_Albion]

I get it out of the Bible by taking the passage in context rather than seizing on a word or two to support some far out belief. This Psalm is a direct assault on the unrighteousness of the Judges of Israel and their failure to fulfill their God-given role as a type of god over Israel....a role enshrined in The Law as referenced by Jesus. Now I know that Mormon belief might be different....it does not, however, change the facts.

[_Albion]

PS. Being in the company of God and Jesus is not the same as being God (even with a small g as a god). Inheriting all that the father has to give is the promise of Biblical salvation...part of that is the very act of being with God. It is only Jesus who sits with God as an equal. Your use of Revelations is a stretch any way you look at it.

[_gdemetz]

Albion, those are some of the weakest, most pitiful arguments to try to justify those false teaching that I have ever heard!!! Don't try to twist the meaning of these very plain scriptures! No matter who the people are and what they were doing, the fact remains that the scriptures clearly state that they were gods, and that all of them were children of God!!! the Apostle Paul makes this very clear when he speaks to the unbelieving Greeks and tells them plainly that we are Gods offspring!!! Furthermore, the Bible teaches very plainly and very clearly that it is the Fathers good pleasure to give us the kingdom, and that we can become joint heirs with Christ as well as sitting on the throne of godhood as Revelation also clearly states!!! You sound like one of those ignorant evangelicals who always claim the Bible only as your authority, but you no more understand it than the man in the moon!!! And when something is quoted to you that you don't understand, then you try to twist the meaning entirely of what the scripture is actually stating into something entirely different!! It talks about gods and being the children of God, and then you go off into left field talking about who the teaching was aimed at as it that would change that truth!!! You never answered my question that I asked you! Question: How is Adam made from the dust of the earth and also the son of God as Luke 3:38 states?!?

[_Albion]

gdemetz, insults are the weakest form of argument, but I''l ignore those and simply suggest a good study in Hebrew history with a specific focus on The Judges of Israel and the actual titles they were given. I suppose that when one starts from a position that assumes the new, false teaching is the correct one then the original and the consensus scholarly position is the one that is out of kilter. In answer to your question...Adam is God-breathed and a son of God just as we all are. That does not mean that he is in any way conceived by God and one of his spirit wives. "Talking about who the teaching was aimed at as if that would change the truth". This declaration alone demonstrates the weakness of your argument since history and context are essential to any correct understanding of scripture.

[_Tobin]

Albion, good luck with that. gdemetz has a very fundamentalist Mormon view and accepts Brigham Young's view that Jesus was conceived by God the Father having sex with Mary, that Adam and Eve were conceived and born to one of God's wives, and that the Bible clearly teaches that man can become God. You can explain that the Bible doesn't teach any of those things (nor should anyone believe it), but he won't accept that. He's convinced that he is on his way to being God (and yes, I know how blasphemous that is). I've tried hard to dissuade him from such things, but even though I'm Mormon I haven't been able to convince him in the slightest how awful they are.

[_Samantabhadra]

I don't know where you get all that BS from! The scripture clearly states that you are gods and all of you are the children of the Most High!

Psalm 82 (NIV)

A psalm of Asaph.

1 God presides in the great assembly;
he renders judgment among the “gods”:
2 “How long will you defend the unjust
and show partiality to the wicked?
3 Defend the weak and the fatherless;
uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
5 “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’
7 But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.”
8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.

I feel like Mormonism is only defensible on the basis of deliberately out-of-context citations that actually mean the opposite of what LDS teaches them to mean.

[_Albion]

Psalm 82 as rendered in the JPSHebrew-English Tanakh published by the Jewish Publication Society.

God stands in the divine assembly;
among the divine beings He pronounces judgement.
How long will you judge perversely,
showing favor to the wicked?
Judge the wretched and the orphan,
vindicate the lowly and the poor,
rescue the wretched and the needy;
save them from the hand of the wicked.

They neither know nor understand
they go about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth totter.
I HAD TAKEN YOU FOR DIVINE BEINGS,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
but you shall die as men do,
fall like any prince.

Arise, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your possession.


Asaph was a musician first mentioned in 1st Chronicles and who lived during the reign of the Judges of Israel, those men divinely empowered to judge and rule in the affairs of Israel. It is clear that the council in question is an earthly one, none of the failings would exist in a heavenly council, and God is calling it to account for its failure to act under the divine commission he has given them. You simply have to understand the history and context to understand the verses. From the Mormon perspective, how could these men be referred to a gods in the sense that Gdmetz uses the term when they are still men. Presumably even Gdmetz won't know if he will make it to godhood until he actually steps to the Cestial Kingdom....unless he believes he is deserving of the term god right now.

[_Themis]

Albion, good luck with that. gdemetz has a very fundamentalist Mormon view and accepts Brigham Young's view that Jesus was conceived by God the Father having sex with Mary, that Adam and Eve were conceived and born to one of God's wives, and that the Bible clearly teaches that man can become God. You can explain that the Bible doesn't teach any of those things (nor should anyone believe it), but he won't accept that. He's convinced that he is on his way to being God (and yes, I know how blasphemous that is). I've tried hard to dissuade him from such things, but even though I'm Mormon I haven't been able to convince him in the slightest how awful they are.

Joseph also taught that we can become Gods, so you are not just out of step with what the current church teaches but what Joseph eventually came up with when he was making his religion up. This is why we see an evolution over time to some of these more peculiar doctrines.

[_Albion]

In fairness to Tobin, Gdmetz has suggested some pretty bizarre ideas on this thread around this subject that I have never heard from Mormons, even those who argue for the man becoming gods position.

[_Tobin]

In fairness to Tobin, Gdmetz has suggested some pretty bizarre ideas on this thread around this subject that I have never heard from Mormons, even those who argue for the man becoming gods position.

I agree and as you have noted, I see no basis in scripture for any of it either.