Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[Kishkumen]

Wow, so dramatic.

Yes, Rosebud is quite dramatic! Maybe you missed that? Somehow? Eegads.

If you look in the board emails, you can see that the board hadn't been regularly meeting. Board members felt constantly out of the loop. John says Joanna didn't want to meet all that often. Joanna says John didn't want to meet all that often. Board members were being hired without even being voted on by the board.

That's not overblown self-importance. That's someone recognizing you need a functioning board to have a functioning foundation.

Yep. You missed the point. The real drama is not my interpretation, but your girlfriend’s representation of her important work that the bad John and Joanna unjustifiably squelched for allegedly nefarious reasons. Because, you know, when you have worked on a job 8 whole months, you are so important like that.

[Res Ipsa]

This right here is a perfect example of why your bias is so apparent. You want to use the withdrawal as a ding against Rosebud, when common sense will tell you if you know you're going to lose on a technicality (number of employees in order to be held liable for sexual harassment), you don't waste lawyer fees moving forward.

I know I've picked a side here, but you don't get to act like you're looking at this objectively.

She had a lawyer representing her with the NHHRC?

- Doc

If a lawyer filed her complaint, she should have demanded her money back. Any competent employment lawyer would know the 15 employee minimum.

[drumdude]

"Gentlemen, do you see that text message? Are you sure you see it? Are your eyes playing a trick or something? No. Well, as sure as you see my hand so sure did I see the Dehlin emails and texts."

—James Patterson, quoted in "Statement of JP on Rosebud," April 29, 2021, DiscussMormonism.com

"It is not a mere belief, but is a matter of knowledge. I saw the emails printed out and the inscriptions thereon. I saw the rose colored angel, and she showed them unto me."

-Dan Peterson

"Well, just as plain as you see that chopping block, I saw the text messages; and sooner than I would deny it I would lay my head upon that chopping block and let you chop it off."

-Kwaku El

"I know what I know. I have seen what I have seen, and I have heard what I have heard. I have seen the email replies...An rose colored angel appeared to me and others."

-Greg Smith

[consiglieri]

Priceless!!!!!

Bravo!!!!!

[lapliamo]

Hey the Youtube comments on your "takedown" video are going real well for you guys. Congrats LOL

You’ve been busy.

I decided to do some detective work...isn't it curious that the majority of the negative comments towards John Dehlin under ML:021 had their accounts created TODAY? One other account was created 10 days ago.

These accounts are replying back to each other, almost exclusively.
edit: I missed one more: Monica Adams (created Apr. 29)
edit2: Another one just commented. User is Iam Trumbull (created Apr. 29)
edit3: Updated image. FYI: Clicking on their profile reveals their account creation date on the right-hand side of their profile.

[Symmachus]

Just look at how many replies this thread has and how fast they've come, and compare that to the Kwaku apology thread. No one cares about that now.

I think Kwaku's personality makes up for most of that.

That may be. The point is that this could quickly have spiraled beyond Dehlin's control. John Dehlin is a tiny fish, but social media mobs have come after tadpoles, and here you have a guy on video saying that kind of thing—and calling the police. Jaded ex-Mormons aren't going to care about that because they don't like Kwaku, perhaps, but people who neither know nor care about Mormonism and Kwaku do. It doesn't take much to elevate a few clips to the point where even progressive supporters of John Dehlin have to start issuing statements.

On the other hand, maybe it is just a tiny island of insignificance and no one gives a rat's ass beyond a few hundred people whose minds continue to feed on Mormonism for sustenance. The way the word "board" is used on this thread is particularly hilarious: you'd think we're talking about an organization the size of JP Morgan Chase but in reality it refers to a number of people no larger than could fit in a Prius.

And this from Option 2 has got to be one of the whitest things I've ever read:

[Rosebud] proves sexual harassment to the public and starts trying to get the laws changed so sexual harassment can exist [sic] in organizations with fewer than 15 employees

Never mind the slip there, but that just seems like a weirdly specific goal that is at once grandiose and puny. She goes on to say in that bullet point that she will die "old and bitter because no ever listens." That's a strong prediction. Happily, however, Option 2 ends with her making lots of money from book sales and retiring to Florida. I am sincere when I say that I hope it will be the latter.

For the record, this podcast was not suggested or coordinated by John Dehlin.

John Dehlin had no input in what was covered or how.

I spent many hours over many days talking to witnesses and poring over what documents I could lay my hands on.

It was my baby all the way.

I did it the way I wanted.

Evidence-based from beginning to end.

No speculation allowed.

I don't doubt any of this, and I am a big fan of your work (especially the Ritner podcast!). Did Dehlin know you were doing it though? Just curious. I can't tell if he is a phenomenal at playing digital media chess in putting his Kwaku apology at the same time or if he is just lucky.

[consiglieri]

You’ve been busy.

I decided to do some detective work...isn't it curious that the majority of the negative comments towards John Dehlin under ML:021 had their accounts created TODAY? One other account was created 10 days ago.

These accounts are replying back to each other, almost exclusively.
edit: I missed one more: Monica Adams (created Apr. 29)
edit2: Another one just commented. User is Iam Trumbull (created Apr. 29)

Nice detective work!

Curioser and curioser...

[Res Ipsa]

I think Kwaku's personality makes up for most of that.

That may be. The point is that this could quickly have spiraled beyond Dehlin's control. John Dehlin is a tiny fish, but social media mobs have come after tadpoles, and here you have a guy on video saying that kind of thing—and calling the police. Jaded ex-Mormons aren't going to care about that because they don't like Kwaku, perhaps, but people who neither know nor care about Mormonism and Kwaku do. It doesn't take much to elevate a few clips to the point where even progressive supporters of John Dehlin have to start issuing statements.

On the other hand, maybe it is just a tiny island of insignificance and no one gives a rat's ass beyond a few hundred people whose minds continue to feed on Mormonism for sustenance. The way the word "board" is used on this thread is particularly hilarious: you'd think we're talking about an organization the size of JP Morgan Chase but in reality it refers to a number of people no larger than could fit in a Prius.

And this from Option 2 has got to be one of the whitest things I've ever read:

[Rosebud] proves sexual harassment to the public and starts trying to get the laws changed so sexual harassment can exist [sic] in organizations with fewer than 15 employees

Never mind the slip there, but that just seems like a weirdly specific goal that is at once grandiose and puny. She goes on to say in that bullet point that she will die "old and bitter because no ever listens." That's a strong prediction. Happily, however, Option 2 ends with her making lots of money from book sales and retiring to Florida. I am sincere when I say that I hope it will be the latter.

For the record, this podcast was not suggested or coordinated by John Dehlin.

John Dehlin had no input in what was covered or how.

I spent many hours over many days talking to witnesses and poring over what documents I could lay my hands on.

It was my baby all the way.

I did it the way I wanted.

Evidence-based from beginning to end.

No speculation allowed.

I don't doubt any of this, and I am a big fan of your work (especially the Ritner podcast!). Did Dehlin know you were doing it though? Just curious. I can't tell if he is a phenomenal at playing digital media chess in putting his Kwaku apology at the same time or if he is just lucky.

You, ma'am deserve an honorary Order of the Coif. Rosebud wrote that letter knowing she had no legal remedy. Straight up blackmail. Done.

[consiglieri]

I think Kwaku's personality makes up for most of that.

That may be. The point is that this could quickly have spiraled beyond Dehlin's control. John Dehlin is a tiny fish, but social media mobs have come after tadpoles, and here you have a guy on video saying that kind of thing—and calling the police. Jaded ex-Mormons aren't going to care about that because they don't like Kwaku, perhaps, but people who neither know nor care about Mormonism and Kwaku do. It doesn't take much to elevate a few clips to the point where even progressive supporters of John Dehlin have to start issuing statements.

On the other hand, maybe it is just a tiny island of insignificance and no one gives a rat's ass beyond a few hundred people whose minds continue to feed on Mormonism for sustenance. The way the word "board" is used on this thread is particularly hilarious: you'd think we're talking about an organization the size of JP Morgan Chase but in reality it refers to a number of people no larger than could fit in a Prius.

And this from Option 2 has got to be one of the whitest things I've ever read:

[Rosebud] proves sexual harassment to the public and starts trying to get the laws changed so sexual harassment can exist [sic] in organizations with fewer than 15 employees

Never mind the slip there, but that just seems like a weirdly specific goal that is at once grandiose and puny. She goes on to say in that bullet point that she will die "old and bitter because no ever listens." That's a strong prediction. Happily, however, Option 2 ends with her making lots of money from book sales and retiring to Florida. I am sincere when I say that I hope it will be the latter.

For the record, this podcast was not suggested or coordinated by John Dehlin.

John Dehlin had no input in what was covered or how.

I spent many hours over many days talking to witnesses and poring over what documents I could lay my hands on.

It was my baby all the way.

I did it the way I wanted.

Evidence-based from beginning to end.

No speculation allowed.

I don't doubt any of this, and I am a big fan of your work (especially the Ritner podcast!). Did Dehlin know you were doing it though? Just curious. I can't tell if he is a phenomenal at playing digital media chess in putting his Kwaku apology at the same time or if he is just lucky.

Yes, John Dehlin definitely knew this was happening.

I almost had to reschedule because Nadine had a conflict she was unable to work around until less than 24-hours before showtime.

It just seemed to Bill and me this was the most opportune time to do it because things had reached a fever pitch that would likely subside by next week.

To the extent this worked in John’s favor vis-à-vis the Kwaku thing, I think it must be chalked up to dumb luck.

[Dr Exiled]

Great job consiglieri on the presentation, truly epic. We all suspected rosebud had empty claims but you proved it in devastating fashion.