The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

[Guest]

But I believe that the basic laws of physics will change. You believe they will not change. You also believe that the laws were the same going back into the past. I am pretty sure they were different then as well.

So make up what ever story you want.

There have been some major floods on the earth recorded in the rocks and landscape. I wonder if you know about them?

Major floods are very different then floods covering the whole earth

One has to wonder why these guys quoted Lester King as well.

Same reason we might quote other scholars who have done good work. It doesn't mean the scientific community has to accept every idea they come up with.

And three more as described in the Nasa link.

So if the earth has been flattened six times that we know of by water I find it odd that you hold to a belief that there is no evidence. Maybe you just disagree with the dates? But that is another discussion.

I must be missing it. Again we see no disruption with humans, animals or plants 4-5 thousand years ago. All sciences get the same results here, and they use different techniques and dating systems. DNA in native Americans got here over about 15-20 K years ago and still remains the only source for native Americans other then what is introduced with European colonization. This problem goes on and on and on.

[_Themis]

I have had no communication with the Holy Ghost on any issues dealing with geology.

That's obvious

[_Drifting]

I have had no communication with the Holy Ghost on any issues dealing with geology.

That's obvious

Frank, how about; anthropology; archeology; history...?

Frank, the Egyptians began constructing the pyramids shortly (200years ish) before the great flood and were only completed a while after the flood (800years ish).
If the flood happened and all those Egyptians drowned, who went back to repair and finish the pyramids?

[_Franktalk]

Frank, the Egyptians began constructing the pyramids shortly (200years ish) before the great flood and were only completed a while after the flood (800years ish).
If the flood happened and all those Egyptians drowned, who went back to repair and finish the pyramids?

You seem to know a lot about history. Just how sure are you of those facts?

What I know is that there are many opinions out there on when things happened in the past. It seems that you have decided to hold as true some of those opinions. That is fine. I am sure you are happy with your choice. But the truth of the past can only be known by someone who was there. Even the writings are subjective and biased that were left by the ancient peoples. Most of our past is lost. Destroyed over time by various people for one reason or another. Yet somehow you know what happened. I find that amazing.

I have decided to believe in the Gospels and the prophets. I have made my choice and you have made yours. One day we will know the truth of the past. One day I will speak to people who were there. But until that day I will live in faith that the Gospels and the prophets are right.

[_Themis]

You seem to know a lot about history. Just how sure are you of those facts?

What I know is that there are many opinions out there on when things happened in the past. It seems that you have decided to hold as true some of those opinions. That is fine. I am sure you are happy with your choice. But the truth of the past can only be known by someone who was there. Even the writings are subjective and biased that were left by the ancient peoples. Most of our past is lost. Destroyed over time by various people for one reason or another. Yet somehow you know what happened. I find that amazing.

I have decided to believe in the Gospels and the prophets. I have made my choice and you have made yours. One day we will know the truth of the past. One day I will speak to people who were there. But until that day I will live in faith that the Gospels and the prophets are right.

I love how frank likes to call scientific knowledge of what he doesn't like opinion. Then he retreats to the we can't know anything absolutely so you really don't know what happened. I would also add that he has to dismiss all dating methods as they will not give him what he wants.

[_Drifting]

Frank, the Egyptians began constructing the pyramids shortly (200years ish) before the great flood and were only completed a while after the flood (800years ish).
If the flood happened and all those Egyptians drowned, who went back to repair and finish the pyramids?

You seem to know a lot about history. Just how sure are you of those facts?

What I know is that there are many opinions out there on when things happened in the past. It seems that you have decided to hold as true some of those opinions. That is fine. I am sure you are happy with your choice. But the truth of the past can only be known by someone who was there. Even the writings are subjective and biased that were left by the ancient peoples. Most of our past is lost. Destroyed over time by various people for one reason or another. Yet somehow you know what happened. I find that amazing.

I have decided to believe in the Gospels and the prophets. I have made my choice and you have made yours. One day we will know the truth of the past. One day I will speak to people who were there. But until that day I will live in faith that the Gospels and the prophets are right.

You see Frank, and here's the point, I'm not so intent on holding my views and opinions that facts and evidence can't persuade me to alter them. You on the other hand...

Can't answer the question about the Pyramids huh....thought not...

[_Franktalk]

You see Frank, and here's the point, I'm not so intent on holding my views and opinions that facts and evidence can't persuade me to alter them. You on the other hand...

Can't answer the question about the Pyramids huh....thought not...

What I see is a pile of stones in the desert. What you see is a pile of stones with a story. A story that determines your world view. But there are many stories out there. You can shop around for just about anything you wish. What you have done is to accept one story and cast out all others. Feel free to do so. In my study of the past I came across too many conflicting papers dealing with the same evidence. So I was left with two choices. One was to accept one story and cast out the others or the other was to cast out all of them and instead rest by beliefs on something else. I am happy with my decision. I my view I see people like you stand on a pile of rocks and tell me that the rocks tell a story. In my view the rocks are silent.

Why is it important to get the story of the rocks correct? Is this an attempt to understand our past and figure out why we are here? If that is the goal then I have taken the path of spirituality for those answers and you have taken to listen to rocks. I wonder which one of us may get answers that transcend this universe.

One day I will stand before God. I will tell Him I searched for Him on a spiritual path and avoided the creation to answer my questions. From what I understand this is the way He has told us to seek Him. I may get somethings wrong on my path. I accept that. I have to ask you what will you say when You stand before God? Will you tell Him that you tried to find Him in a pile of stones?

[_Themis]

What I see is a pile of stones in the desert. What you see is a pile of stones with a story.

I certainty see a story, just as I do with everything I see. I see to recall you doing this with what you like, but when the story doesn't fit your world view you dismiss it regardless of the evidence.

A story that determines your world view.

It helps to inform us of the world around us, but it is not the only factor that helps determine our views of the world.

But there are many stories out there. You can shop around for just about anything you wish. What you have done is to accept one story and cast out all others.

Not at all. Certainly some stories have to be discarded if they don't fit the evidence, or at least reevaluated. I had to with LDS claims, and particularly what I was taught was supposed to be God talking to me. The difference is one of us is willing to reevaluate based on new information. It's one of the strengths of science, and one of the weaknesses of some religious people who refuse.

Feel free to do so. In my study of the past I came across too many conflicting papers dealing with the same evidence. So I was left with two choices. One was to accept one story and cast out the others or the other was to cast out all of them and instead rest by beliefs on something else. I am happy with my decision. I my view I see people like you stand on a pile of rocks and tell me that the rocks tell a story. In my view the rocks are silent.

This is not an accurate view of science, But not surprising you would think so.

Why is it important to get the story of the rocks correct? Is this an attempt to understand our past and figure out why we are here? If that is the goal then I have taken the path of spirituality for those answers and you have taken to listen to rocks. I wonder which one of us may get answers that transcend this universe.

You certainly haven't, or at least yours can't seem to agree with so many others. I wouldn't be betting that you got it right.

One day I will stand before God. I will tell Him I searched for Him on a spiritual path and avoided the creation to answer my questions. From what I understand this is the way He has told us to seek Him. I may get somethings wrong on my path. I accept that. I have to ask you what will you say when You stand before God? Will you tell Him that you tried to find Him in a pile of stones?

A loving and fair God is not going to punish people for using their brains and reward people for not using it. I sought God for decades, or at least the LDS God. I understand better now, not that you should take that as being an atheist.

[_Franktalk]

I certainty see a story, just as I do with everything I see. I see to recall you doing this with what you like, but when the story doesn't fit your world view you dismiss it regardless of the evidence.

I do participate in many discussions. I am consistent in my attachment to the world of knowledge. I may hold to a view but I am very likely not firm in my view. I have come to a conclusion that all evidence in the creation can and will be interpreted by men incorrectly. If you read my posts carefully you will see I mostly oppose rather than support a theory of interpretation. The alternatives I offer are just to weaken the arguments around an orthodox view. I find that all theories are lacking in truth.

It is no surprise that you see a story.

[_Themis]

I do participate in many discussions. I am consistent in my attachment to the world of knowledge.

You're definitely not consistent. The only thing you are consistent is dismissing any scientific knowledge that disagrees with your religious beliefs.

I may hold to a view but I am very likely not firm in my view.

See above.

I have come to a conclusion that all evidence in the creation can and will be interpreted by men incorrectly.

This doesn't help you.

If you read my posts carefully you will see I mostly oppose rather than support a theory of interpretation. The alternatives I offer are just to weaken the arguments around an orthodox view. I find that all theories are lacking in truth.

Your agenda is clear.

It is no surprise that you see a story.

The story comes from evaluating the evidence available. As soon as drifting started to bring up what we know about the Egyptian civilization you again retreated.