Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?

[_gdemetz]

Themis, maybe you could help Sandusky out. I hear that they have about eleven witnesses against him. Maybe you could ask the prosecution if they have any video tape evidence!

[_Drifting]

Themis, maybe you could help Sandusky out. I hear that they have about eleven witnesses against him. Maybe you could ask the prosecution if they have any video tape evidence!

Interestingly, the witnesses to the Book of Mormon (mostly relatives of the guy that wrote, and then subsequently changed, their statement of support for his claims about the book) changed their tune when cross examined. The hallmark of an unreliable witness...

[_Themis]

Themis, maybe you could help Sandusky out. I hear that they have about eleven witnesses against him. Maybe you could ask the prosecution if they have any video tape evidence!

You can be sure they will examine those witnesses very carefully, but then I don't think those witnesses all witnessed the same event, but different events of his crimes. Now this is again a dodge to avoid dealing with the issue. I suspect you have nothing to provide.

[_gdemetz]

What else could I provide this many year later that has not been provided already. There were eleven very creditable witnesses, plus others who added to their testimonies which never significantly changed over the years. If we were talking about some secular historical event other than a religious one, who in their right mind would dispute all that?!?

[_Themis]

What else could I provide this many year later that has not been provided already. There were eleven very creditable witnesses, plus others who added to their testimonies which never significantly changed over the years. If we were talking about some secular historical event other than a religious one, who in their right mind would dispute all that?!?

If it were a secular event then most including LDS would easily dismiss it since to many questions arise of you look at all the evidence available. Try it sometime.

[_jo1952]

8 And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance. (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi, Chapter 1)

This is what Nephi was told by God circa 590bc.

Yet...

The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation. Their words, written on gold plates, were quoted and abridged by a prophet-historian named Mormon. The record gives an account of two great civilizations. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C., and afterward separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites. The other came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel. This group is known as the Jaredites. After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are among the ancestors of the American Indians. (Book of Mormon, Introduction)

So why didn't God inform Nephi that the land had in fact been inhabited before and hadn't been kept from all other nations as a Land of Promise pending Nephi's groups arrival?

Genesis 11:9 (KJV)

Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

I don't believe you can legitimately say that any "nation" sent the Jaredites to America. God scattered the people, and the Jaredites ended up in America; ergo, there is no contradiction.

Blessings,

jo

[_jo1952]

The story was created in the 19th century with the thinking that Noah's flood was global. This explains why no mention of other groups. The Jaredites were essentially dead when Nephi arrived. His group and the other from the middle east had to populate the whole of the America's. This was the thinking back then, so it makes sense that people even before Joseph were coming up with the basics of the Book of Mormon narrative to explain where all these natives came from.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning for including Noah's flood; though I don't think it is as important as knowing that the confounding of the languages took place after the flood. God scattered the people. So whoever may have wound up in the America's as a result of that scattering would not have been sent by nations trying to discover a new land they could overtake.

I believe there were also other groups that showed up in the America's in addition to those mentioned in the Book of Mormon. I think they would be at least some of the lost tribes who came here before Lehi did; thus they would also be Israelites--just like Lehi and his family. They would have come to escape from whatever nations had conquered them. Thus, they were not sent by any nation; nor could their purpose for escaping be construed as an effort to conquer the Americas.

Blessings,

jo

[_jo1952]

You provide a third party statement to support support that the 8 or 3 signed anything. Sorry that does not cut it. You really are ignorant. Now I am not saying events didn't happen with the 3(2 and 1) or the 8(4 and 4). I bet you don't understand what I am getting at with the 2 and 1 or 4 and 4. The problem is we don't have any signed documents for the statements in the Book of Mormon so they are not evidence that Joseph had plates. WE can read an number of other statements made by the 11 or others who knew them but this only helps to confuse what really happened. Some suggest it it was spiritual in nature only. I have said this before, but God would have to have been pretty stupid on this one not to get these men to all sign not just a group statement, but also write and sign their own witness in their own words of what happened.

So, can any of you provide copies of signed affidavits confirming that Moses wrote the pentateuch; or for that matter, ANY kind of proof? Or for who wrote the other books of the Old Testament? How about for the New Testament? Is there any proof that Matthew wrote the Book of Matthew, or that Mark wrote the Book of Mark? Or, etc...?

Thanks!

Blessings,

jo

[_Themis]

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning for including Noah's flood;

Simple. When Joseph and possibility others were creating the Book of Mormon they thought the world was only about 6 thousands years old and the flood was global. As such there story explains that people got here after the flood from the Jaredites and two groups from the middle eats. They didn't get it right as we know there was no global flood or confounding of languages . People existed all over the world 10's of thousands of years ago including the Americas.

The rest of your post show a complete lack of understand of history and science. Most is just made up because you like it.

So, can any of you provide copies of signed affidavits confirming that Moses wrote the pentateuch; or for that matter, ANY kind of proof? Or for who wrote the other books of the Old Testament? How about for the New Testament? Is there any proof that Matthew wrote the Book of Matthew, or that Mark wrote the Book of Mark? Or, etc...?

This helps how?

[_jo1952]

Simple. When Joseph and possibility others were creating the Book of Mormon they thought the world was only about 6 thousands years old and the flood was global. As such there story explains that people got here after the flood from the Jaredites and two groups from the middle eats. They didn't get it right as we know there was no global flood or confounding of languages . People existed all over the world 10's of thousands of years ago including the Americas.

The rest of your post show a complete lack of understand of history and science. Most is just made up because you like it.

There are scientists who do believe there was a global flood, as well as scientists who believe that the methods used to "date" the age of relics are flawed. No scientist, from either side, is able to prove that their interpretation of data is correct. Both sides are really just giving their best-guess opinion, since the scientific method cannot be used because a repeatable experiment cannot be performed on the past, or from direct observation of the past.

I would have thought that with all of your superior wisdom and knowledge you would not have been afraid to admit this. I suppose you did not present both sides because you didn't want to. Therefore, you only presented the side which agrees with what you believe, because you like it.

This helps how?

Since it is the Book of Mormon which anti-LDS are trying to disparage in this thread, I am going to try to keep the playing field fair by asking that the Bible be able to stand up to the same standards being used against the Book of Mormon. I have even gone so far as to use passages from the Bible as the measuring stick for a fair and unbiased chronological comparison.

Now, if you believe the Bible is also just made up, I hope that you are giving equal time to other Christian apologetic websites. It would be a shame to use your wisdom and knowledge only for anti-LDS purposes.

jo