Tobin wrote:You make me dizzy. You know Joseph Smith didn't know Egyptian Hieroglyphics, yet you claim he must of because God taught it to him. Just exactly how did you arrive at this amazing conclusion that God taught Joseph Smith Egyptian Hieroglyphics and what proof do you have that he did? I'd be fascinated to read about this experience.
Reading comprehension is a real problem for you, or are you just lying again? The issue I brought up is why God would give Joseph explanations for each part of the facsimiles knowing they have knowing to do with them. This would be deceptive and incredibly dumb. These explanations are inseparably connected to the facsimiles.
Again, God didn't give Joseph Smith the explanations of each part of the facsimiles. They were just his conjecture. * and the room is spinning *
Themis wrote:
Tobin wrote:"There is no evidence that Smith used the stone to dictate any more of the Doctrine and Covenants revelations after November 1830; and during his work on his Bible translation, Smith told Orson Pratt he had stopped using the stone because he had become acquainted with "the Spirit of Prophecy and Revelation" and no longer needed it." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seer_stone ... Day_Saints)
This does not say anything against what I said. It still doesn't deal with the problems of believing Joseph had revelations using them yet they were also uninspired. Was he making up those hidden objects he saw or text he got for the Book of Mormon.
No, they were just a crutch and as the quote points out - unneccessary.
Themis wrote:
Tobin wrote:I gave you a source on seerstones. I'm not your sock puppet. I don't have to do as you ask. by the way - I'm just being stubborn and disagreeable just like you always are. Can't wait for your next post and for you to repeat the same non-sense again.
You mean just now. LOL It was not even relevant to the OP. You have given nothing about it even when asked. At least some of us are willing to do that.
I'm not going to provide one. I don't feel like it.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:Again, God didn't give Joseph Smith the explanations of each part of the facsimiles. They were just his conjecture. * and the room is spinning *
Now we can see the explanations are are very detailed and connected to each part of the facsimile in such a way that you cannot get rid of the one without getting rid of the other.
If I am talking to God on a regular basis and giving me detailed instructions I am not going to to jump to any assumptions about some papyri showing up that I know I cannot know on my own. I would go and ask God what it is. God not being dumb would just say it is funerary rituals for dead Egyptians. End of story. The catalyst theory depends on Joseph and God being like the two main characters on Dumb and Dumber. God being the latter for this one to work.
I'm not going to provide one. I don't feel like it.
Everyone already knows from the start you were never going to provide any substance to the OP. I am neutral on it, but at least I can discuss it maturely and look at the evidence available instead of making absurd assertions about something you don't even know much about.
Tobin wrote:Again, God didn't give Joseph Smith the explanations of each part of the facsimiles. They were just his conjecture. * and the room is spinning *
Now lets look at facsimile 2.... Now we can see the explanations are are very detailed and connected to each part of the facsimile in such a way that you cannot get rid of the one without getting rid of the other. If I am talking to God on a regular basis and giving me detailed instructions I am not going to to jump to any assumptions about some papyri showing up that I know I cannot know on my own. I would go and ask God what it is. God not being dumb would just say it is funerary rituals for dead Egyptians. End of story. The catalyst theory depends on Joseph and God being like the two main characters on Dumb and Dumber. God being the latter for this one to work.
I can look at the facsimiles till my eyes bleed. Joseph Smith couldn't read Egyptian Hieroglphics and didn't know what he was looking at it. You know that. I know that. God knows that. Joseph Smith even knows that now. Drop it.
Themis wrote:
Tobin wrote:'m not going to provide one. I don't feel like it.
Everyone already knows from the start you were never going to provide any substance to the OP. I am neutral on it, but at least I can discuss it maturely and look at the evidence available instead of making absurd assertions about something you don't even know much about.
Let me check. Ehhhh, no. Still don't fee like it.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:I can look at the facsimiles till my eyes bleed. Joseph Smith couldn't read Egyptian Hieroglphics and didn't know what he was looking at it. You know that. I know that. God knows that. Joseph Smith even knows that now. Drop it.
That's the point and why the explanations for the facsimiles don't work. They are specific to them and cannot exist without them. Therefore the catalyst theory cannot have God giving him these explanations and are therefore made up. Not inspired. Same really goes for the text as well, since Joseph was claiming to translate each of the hieroglyphs. He was asking for the Abraham story . He was claiming to ask God what each hieroglyph meant. This is evident with the many statements made on it and the KEP.
Tobin wrote:I can look at the facsimiles till my eyes bleed. Joseph Smith couldn't read Egyptian Hieroglphics and didn't know what he was looking at it. You know that. I know that. God knows that. Joseph Smith even knows that now. Drop it.
That's the point and why the explanations for the facsimiles don't work. They are specific to them and cannot exist without them. Therefore the catalyst theory cannot have God giving him these explanations and are therefore made up. Not inspired. Same really goes for the text as well, since Joseph was claiming to translate each of the hieroglyphs. He was asking for the Abraham story . He was claiming to ask God what each hieroglyph meant. This is evident with the many statements made on it and the KEP.
Yawn, for the upteenth time. Joseph Smith couldn't read Egyptian Heiroglyphics. His speculation about what was or was not contained in the papyri is not relevant. The papyri are Egyptian. There is NOTHING in them about Abraham nor is there any reason to think there would be. The Egyptians wouldn't have any interest in keeping any record written by Abraham. You really are a broken record on this.
Themis wrote:
Tobin wrote:Let me check. Ehhhh, no. Still don't fee like it.
Uh, ya, we know that, and why.
Because I'm following your example?
Last edited by Guest on Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:Yawn, for the upteenth time. Joseph Smith couldn't read Egyptian Heiroglyphics. His speculation about what was or was not contained in the papyri is not relevant. The papyri are Egyptian. There is NOTHING in them about Abraham nor is there any reason to think there would be. The Egyptians wouldn't have any interest in keeping any record written by Abraham. You really are a broken record on this.
Tobin wrote:Yawn, for the upteenth time. Joseph Smith couldn't read Egyptian Heiroglyphics. His speculation about what was or was not contained in the papyri is not relevant. The papyri are Egyptian. There is NOTHING in them about Abraham nor is there any reason to think there would be. The Egyptians wouldn't have any interest in keeping any record written by Abraham. You really are a broken record on this.
You haven't brought up anything. You have pointed out (as have others) that Joseph Smith speculated about the papyri and facsimiles as being written by the hand of Abraham and also contained a record of Joseph. That is factually untrue. Everyone, outside of TBMs and a few nutty apologists, KNOWS that. He was wrong. To error is human. Get over it.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:You haven't brought up anything. You have pointed out (as have others) that Joseph Smith speculated about the papyri and facsimiles as being written by the hand of Abraham and also contained a record of Joseph. That is factually untrue. Everyone, outside of TBMs and a few nutty apologists, KNOWS that. He was wrong. To error is human. Get over it.
Tobin wrote:You haven't brought up anything. You have pointed out (as have others) that Joseph Smith speculated about the papyri and facsimiles as being written by the hand of Abraham and also contained a record of Joseph. That is factually untrue. Everyone, outside of TBMs and a few nutty apologists, KNOWS that. He was wrong. To error is human. Get over it.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
You anti's should read my quotes from FAIR about the deceivers who come up with this bull. Check out my last post on the "Joseph Smith Wrote the Witness Statement" topic!
