Recent News Regarding Daniel Peterson

[_subgenius]

Not as cute as Uranus...

[_Quasimodo]

Astronomy class?

Hi ludwigm. This may be a confusion in subtle language differences. If you didn't get it, Uranus sounds identical to 'your anus' in English.

I once knew a doctor (Proctologist) who had 'planet 7' as his car licence plate.

[_subgenius]

Here's how I see this move. In order to survive, the Mormon church is going to have to stop trying to cover up its history and start dealing with it.

arguably "cover-up" is a means to "deal" with it...however, the Catholic church has done alright by ignoring people who strain gnats...i suppose the LDS church will be just fine.

In order to attract today's more educated populace,

an obvious assumption on your part...."more" educated?..how? do you mean by the notion that anything and everything posted on the internet being equivalent to educational? (not sure i follow your logic there).

the church must deal with the fact that Joseph Smith was a shaman who pretty much led a bunch of credulous followers.

speculation and opinion on your part....do you have an actual argument in your bag of tricks.

He was able to manipulate very simple people, convincing them that he was in touch with God, and that he, in fact, was "god" to the Mormons (and if they didn't like it, they could go ahead and lump it).

see previous comment

Mormons try to rationalize away Smith "marrying" young teenie boppers (as young as 14), besides his own foster daughters. Now, most TBMs will try to cover this up with pseudo-intellectual gibberish, but the fact remains that Smith was simply paving the way for Jones and Koresh, who also engaged in questionable sexual acts, using "religion" as a cover to justify their sexual lust.

see previous comment

However, when the rest of the world looks at Smith's perversions (especially marrying teenagers and the wives of other men), they aren't so quick to dismiss this as some kind of God-directed act demanded by a sword-wielding angel. Rather, more sophisticated people see through Smith's claims to divine guidance when it comes to his immoral sexual acts. Any woman should!

actually, most people are just obsessed with sex and thus can not see anything else..their obsession (and yours) is more revealing about their own character. This Puritanical measure is often ironic considering the crowd that levies it.

On another issue, today's modern, less credulous population isn't so quick to embrace a book which describes a non-existent civilization, written on gold plates in a non-existent language. Now, Peterson and his staff can spend literally thousands of hours defending the Book of Mormon, but the bottom line is that those hours are wasted on promoting a myth. There is no other explanation for the total lack of artifact evidence, regardless of the highly speculative statements issued by Mormon "apologists."

Obviously you are confused about what type of text the Book of Mormon actually is.
as for artifacts...if this is your litmus test, then what a small and narrow world must surround you.

So, how to save the church? Perhaps the Community of Christ has paved the way. Give token allegiance to Smith, but acknowledge his life as fallen and debased in many ways. Give lipservice to the Book of Mormon, but see it more in terms of pious literature rather than an actual narrative of real events. Begin to dialogue with genuine Christians.

"genuine Christians"?...oh please, grace us with your legitimate definition of what a genuine christian must surely be....please?
You are sadly mistaken...for it is the "genuine Christian" which much first recognize that they are not at all genuine and come forth and begin the dialogue with us...much like you are doing now.

Perhaps this is the beginning of change. Who knows!

i know...and it ain't the change you are thinking of.

[_Fence Sitter]

Perhaps this is the beginning of change. Who knows!

i know...and it ain't the change you are thinking of.

I suspect it wasn't a change DCP was thinking of either.

[_ludwigm]

Uranus...

Thank You. I wouldn't ever get on to this.

On the one hand this is why I don't watch podcasts and video presentations. If there are slang words during reading, I can look at them in Urban Dictionary. How could I search misheard words?
(The other reason of my revulsion against audio is the time factor. Half hour spoken word can be listened in half hour - if I never should rewind for better understanding. The same written text can be read in three minute, and any "rewind" is a flash only.)

[_Servant]

I'm sure this has come up, but what do people here see as the outcome of Dr. Peterson being removed from being editor of Mormon Studies Review? What percipitated the change? Nothing this big happens without Monson's okay, I'm sure. Dr. Peterson is an important figure in Mormonism. Any responses?

There are multiple threads going on on this board (see the terrestial forum) and on MDDB here.
[url]
http://www.mormondialogue.org/forum/11- ... scussions/[/url]
Speculations vary from apocalyptic doom to the 2nd coming.

The reality is that, even for the majority of LDS, it is a non event that a few years from now will be forgotten. It does make interesting message board fodder.

But it's a central concern for those who engage in apologetics. It will be interesting to see just how this impacts the methodology used by Mormon apologists on those boards. Dr. Peterson is a witty guy, but I think his type of apologetics has seen its day. And no decision like this comes from anyone or any group lower than the First Presidency.

In my opinion, the Mormons are going to have to deal with facts instead of attempting to shovel all kinds of manure on top of them, if you know what I mean.

Another thing the Mormons Church is facing is how to deal with some of the loose canon apologists who quote, for instance, pagan texts to prove polytheism, or resort to all kinds of theological contortions (justified by obscure ancient language rules) to prove, for instance, that the Mormon deity is a male deity with all the genitalia to prove it. This does not go over well with the vast majority of people who have a more sophisticated view of God.

Mormonism is going to have to change or dwindle like the Bogomils and Cathars who saw their day, and faded into the darkness of "has been" dualistic gnostics.

Sure, you'll still fool some people, but education is the worst enemy of the LDS - and as more and more members research its history, and especially the life of Joseph Smith, it is inevitable that the Church will be called to account. And will continue to lose more and more members.

http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/Mormon-Ch ... s-to-leave

[_moksha]

Mormonism is going to have to change or dwindle like the Bogomils and Cathars who saw their day, and faded into the darkness of "has been" dualistic gnostics.

More like McDonalds franchising all over the world (even better since McDonalds fails to hold onto the number served for 110 years).

[_Tobin]

I agree with fencesitter that the whole Daniel Peterson episode is a "non event" as far as most Mormons are concerned.

As far as Catherine's assessment of that the current version of Mormonism will dwindle as members becoming more educated, that is also a valid observation. I do not agree with the cure however.

Mormonism does not need to become less spiritual and dismissive of the scriptures (including the Book of Mormon). In fact, quite the opposite is necessary. Mormonism is a revealed religion that requires the gifts of the spirit to be present. Its claims are just too preposterous to be believed otherwise. People do not see God, angels, and experience miracles in the course of their daily lives. So, without those gifts, the Mormon claims simply can not be believed. In fact, every investigator is challenged to speak to the Lord and from there determine the truth of the Book of Mormon (and Mormonism in general) and this witness from God is essential (or should be essential) to becoming a Mormon.

It is well-known within Mormonism (the final decline of the Nephite civilization), that as faith diminishes so do the gifts of the spirit. Until that faith is renewed, these gifts cannot be renewed and the Church will dwindle till it is corrected. That is the reason Mormonism is not flourishing at the moment. Many have moved away from these spiritual gifts and the power of God being present in their lives because of their lack of faith.

I believe as some point, due to the terrible events of the latter-days, this faith will be renewed and once again the gifts of the spirit will flourish. But, it is a sad comment on human nature that disaster is what is required to motivate us to return to our faith in God.

[_Servant]

I agree with fencesitter that the whole Daniel Peterson episode is a "non event" as far as most Mormons are concerned.

As far as Catherine's assessment of that the current version of Mormonism will dwindle as members becoming more educated, that is also a valid observation. I do not agree with the cure however.

Mormonism does not need to become less spiritual and dismissive of the scriptures (including the Book of Mormon). In fact, quite the opposite is necessary. Mormonism is a revealed religion that requires the gifts of the spirit to be present. Its claims are just too preposterous to be believed otherwise. People do not see God, angels, and experience miracles in the course of their daily lives. So, without those gifts, the Mormon claims simply can not be believed. In fact, every investigator is challenged to speak to the Lord and from there determine the truth of the Book of Mormon (and Mormonism in general) and this witness from God is essential (or should be essential) to becoming a Mormon.

It is well-known within Mormonism (the final decline of the Nephite civilization), that as faith diminishes so do the gifts of the spirit. Until that faith is renewed, these gifts cannot be renewed and the Church will dwindle till it is corrected. That is the reason Mormonism is not flourishing at the moment. Many have moved away from these spiritual gifts and the power of God being present in their lives because of their lack of faith.

I believe as some point, due to the terrible events of the latter-days, this faith will be renewed and once again the gifts of the spirit will flourish. But, it is a sad comment on human nature that disaster is what is required to motivate us to return to our faith in God.

And that is why such denominations as Calvary Chapels and The Assemblies of God, where the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are seen daily, are growing so quickly. I frankly have never encountered a Mormon who seemed to be endowed with the charismata at all........mainly because they have a very skewed view of the Holy Ghost.

[_MCB]

No, no relation. More in memory of:

http://www.srspreciousbloodnh.org/Found ... fault.aspx

They may try to irritate us Catholics, but let it slide past. It is just part of the culture they are emerging from.

Guess my presence has dwindled so much they think they can gang up on a newbie.