Cross, point, or angel on steeple?

[_LittleNipper]

Ye must be born again (I see not ritual in that simple statement).

[_Albion]

Absolutely, Little Nipper. It is in the "born again" experience that salvation comes and all ritual is just public demonstration of what has taken place in the believers heart. Baptism is the public display, the symbolic display, of what has already taken place in the new birth experience. As I have explained before, the awarding of a medal for valor does not convey valor any more than being baptized for the remission of sin conveys forgiveness. Forgiveness (salvation) comes in and only through God's grace to all who believe at the moment they believe.

[_LittleNipper]

Absolutely, Little Nipper. It is in the "born again" experience that salvation comes and all ritual is just public demonstration of what has taken place in the believers heart. Baptism is the public display, the symbolic display, of what has already taken place in the new birth experience. As I have explained before, the awarding of a medal for valor does not convey valor any more than being baptized for the remission of sin conveys forgiveness. Forgiveness (salvation) comes in and only through God's grace to all who believe at the moment they believe.

Well, it is most obvious that neither you nor I are Mormon.

[_subgenius]

Absolutely, Little Nipper. It is in the "born again" experience that salvation comes and all ritual is just public demonstration of what has taken place in the believers heart. Baptism is the public display, the symbolic display, of what has already taken place in the new birth experience. As I have explained before, the awarding of a medal for valor does not convey valor any more than being baptized for the remission of sin conveys forgiveness. Forgiveness (salvation) comes in and only through God's grace to all who believe at the moment they believe.

it is not simply a public "display"...it is an actual manifestation, it is a confirmation of that reality, and without it you are delusional.
God has always demanded action, does He not require "repentance", does He not require "motion"?
You paint a picture of salvation that is purely cerebral..a "i think i am saved, therefore i am"....unfortunately, Heavenly Father has been explicit otherwise.

[_Albion]

Clearly you do not understand the Biblical position of salvation by grace alone "For now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Grace that has to be earned by works is simply not grace but becomes earnings due.

[_LittleNipper]

Absolutely, Little Nipper. It is in the "born again" experience that salvation comes and all ritual is just public demonstration of what has taken place in the believers heart. Baptism is the public display, the symbolic display, of what has already taken place in the new birth experience. As I have explained before, the awarding of a medal for valor does not convey valor any more than being baptized for the remission of sin conveys forgiveness. Forgiveness (salvation) comes in and only through God's grace to all who believe at the moment they believe.

it is not simply a public "display"...it is an actual manifestation, it is a confirmation of that reality, and without it you are delusional.
God has always demanded action, does He not require "repentance", does He not require "motion"?
You paint a picture of salvation that is purely cerebral..a "i think i am saved, therefore i am"....unfortunately, Heavenly Father has been explicit otherwise.

Is not action involved in being on this forum? Is this not what God asks, that His disciples should witness and declare Gospel message. All of this is action that reaches out.

[_subgenius]

Is not action involved in being on this forum? Is this not what God asks, that His disciples should witness and declare Gospel message. All of this is action that reaches out.

i never said it was not...however, thank you for agreeing that "action" is required...
it really is just as simple as 'faith without works is dead'.

[_subgenius]

Clearly you do not understand the Biblical position of salvation by grace alone "For now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Grace that has to be earned by works is simply not grace but becomes earnings due.

clearly i do understand it...whereas you rest upon it, God commands that you do anything but that.
Even the Devil believes in God, but that ain't enough is it?

[_LittleNipper]

Is not action involved in being on this forum? Is this not what God asks, that His disciples should witness and declare Gospel message. All of this is action that reaches out.

i never said it was not...however, thank you for agreeing that "action" is required...
it really is just as simple as 'faith without works is dead'.

However, do such works find their origin with the individual or do such come from God. If from the individual, then clearly they are not eternal...

[_subgenius]

However, do such works find their origin with the individual or do such come from God. If from the individual, then clearly they are not eternal...

other than beside the point, your obvious definition here is correct.
However, clearly we have established that action is commanded of us....and that our salvation is inextricably bound to our actions.