Understanding Revelation 13 by the Spirit

[_Albion]

At the risk of seeming supportive of anything in Mormon Doctrine, here is what the entry says: "As part of their worship, members and ministers of some modern churches make the sign of the cross. In doing so they draw a cross in the air with the right hand beginning at their foreheads. Their purpose is to show devoutness (presumptuous of McConkie, I think) in worship or to consecrate and bless persons or objects. This religious formality is without scriptural or divine warrant. (Rev. 13:16-17"

As opposed to the throat slashing and disenbowelment signs of the old temple ceremony. They had plenty of scripture and divine warrant, I suppose. While such a sing of the cross plays no part in my own worship. I know which one is more reflective of Christian belief.

[_just me]

At the risk of seeming supportive of anything in Mormon Doctrine, here is what the entry says: "As part of their worship, members and ministers of some modern churches make the sign of the cross. In doing so they draw a cross in the air with the right hand beginning at their foreheads. Their purpose is to show devoutness (presumptuous of McConkie, I think) in worship or to consecrate and bless persons or objects. This religious formality is without scriptural or divine warrant. (Rev. 13:16-17"

As opposed to the throat slashing and disenbowelment signs of the old temple ceremony. They had plenty of scripture and divine warrant, I suppose. While such a sing of the cross plays no part in my own worship. I know which one is more reflective of Christian belief.

He shoots! He scores!



and the crowd goes wild

[_Franktalk]

As opposed to the throat slashing and disenbowelment signs of the old temple ceremony. They had plenty of scripture and divine warrant, I suppose. While such a sing of the cross plays no part in my own worship. I know which one is more reflective of Christian belief.

In times of old most everyone killed animals, cut them up, and ate them. The Temple sacrifice was no big deal. Now let us move along to modern times in which we isolate our self from the killing and the cutting. We still kill to survive we just have someone else do it. Do you not think that God knew that man would in modern societies change his view on such matters? I have to now ask: just where is faith going away? In modern societies or in rural areas where people are closer to the reality of life? Is it possible that your own isolation in such matters has given you a false sense of reality? Does that isolation give you a moral leg up on God to judge Him? Just asking.

[_just me]

As opposed to the throat slashing and disenbowelment signs of the old temple ceremony. They had plenty of scripture and divine warrant, I suppose. While such a sing of the cross plays no part in my own worship. I know which one is more reflective of Christian belief.

In times of old most everyone killed animals, cut them up, and ate them. The Temple sacrifice was no big deal. Now let us move along to modern times in which we isolate our self from the killing and the cutting. We still kill to survive we just have someone else do it. Do you not think that God knew that man would in modern societies change his view on such matters? I have to now ask: just where is faith going away? In modern societies or in rural areas where people are closer to the reality of life? Is it possible that your own isolation in such matters has given you a false sense of reality? Does that isolation give you a moral leg up on God to judge Him? Just asking.

Do you not see the difference between pantomiming murdering yourself (in oath form) and killing an animal to eat and survive? Really?

[_Franktalk]

Do you not see the difference between pantomiming murdering yourself (in oath form) and killing an animal to eat and survive? Really?

You will have to explain your question. I was referring to animal sacrifices in a Temple and how modern morals have shifted how many view such things. The sign of the cross is what you think it is. If someone does it to remember Christ then that is what is in their heart. Righteousness is in the heart. Let us say that you perceive someone about to kill your child and you kill that person to protect your child. But you later find out that you interpreted the situation in error and your child was never in danger. God knows your intent. The sign of the cross is no different.

[_just me]

Do you not see the difference between pantomiming murdering yourself (in oath form) and killing an animal to eat and survive? Really?

You will have to explain your question. I was referring to animal sacrifices in a Temple and how modern morals have shifted how many view such things. The sign of the cross is what you think it is. If someone does it to remember Christ then that is what is in their heart. Righteousness is in the heart. Let us say that you perceive someone about to kill your child and you kill that person to protect your child. But you later find out that you interpreted the situation in error and your child was never in danger. God knows your intent. The sign of the cross is no different.

Albion was speaking to the old LDS temple ceremony that lasted until...1990 or something. In it the members pantomimed slashing their own throat and disemboweling themselves if they were to reveal the oaths and secrets of the temple.

[_moksha]

Ten countries to come out of the Roman Empire? Name them. I can think of England, ...

Any revelations that would encompass both Monty Python and Dr. Who?

[_gdemetz]

I believe people like this would have also been very critical of thew ceremonies during Moses time had they been around then.

"And now when ye talk ye say: if our days had been in the days of our fathers of old, we would not have slain the prophets; we would not have stoned them, and cast them out."

"Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him {or discredit him on Mormon Discussions}, yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil."

"But behold, if a man shall come among you and shall say: Do this and their is no iniquity; do that and ye shall not suffer {because you have made that profession of faith with your mouth and are saved forever, halleleujah!}, yea, he will say: Walk after the pride of your own hearts; yea, walk after the pride of your eyes, and do whatever your heart desireth-and if a man shall come among you and say this, ye will receive him, and say that he is a prophet {or a preacher man of God}." Helaman 13:25-27

[_Investigator]

No, he didn't state that. However, the fact that he used that scripture as a reference to the subject "Sign of the Cross" is very telling, especially if one has already received a revelation that that is the case and also receives a confirmation revelation when he sees that reference.

So do you feel you received personal revelation that it's the cross itself that's the mark of the beast, or is it only the Catholic custom of making the sign of the cross by blessing oneself from head to abdomen, and from shoulder to shoulder?

[_gdemetz]

They all constitute this mark. The emperor Constantine saw a vision in which he saw a bright cross in the sky and was told to follow that mark and conquer, thus becoming the mark or symbol of that empire, and when he handed his power to the Bishop of Rome, then that beast, or kingdom, exercised all the power of Rome, or the beast before it.