Understanding Revelation 13 by the Spirit

The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only. Heavily moderated. Rated G.
_jo1952
_Emeritus
Posts: 1118
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:04 am

Re: Understanding Revelation 13 by the Spirit

Post by _jo1952 »

just me wrote:Albion was speaking to the old LDS temple ceremony that lasted until...1990 or something. In it the members pantomimed slashing their own throat and disemboweling themselves if they were to reveal the oaths and secrets of the temple.


I've been going to the Temple since 1978; I have never seen this.

Blessings,

jo
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Understanding Revelation 13 by the Spirit

Post by _Drifting »

jo1952 wrote:
just me wrote:Albion was speaking to the old LDS temple ceremony that lasted until...1990 or something. In it the members pantomimed slashing their own throat and disemboweling themselves if they were to reveal the oaths and secrets of the temple.


I've been going to the Temple since 1978; I have never seen this.

Blessings,

jo


Elder Holland confirmed this 'death oath' was part of the temple ceremony when interviewed by the BBC recently.

You must have attended an apostate temple or not been paying attention. Is there a specific reason you didn't attend until 1978?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Franktalk
_Emeritus
Posts: 2689
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:28 am

Re: Understanding Revelation 13 by the Spirit

Post by _Franktalk »

just me wrote:Albion was speaking to the old LDS temple ceremony that lasted until...1990 or something. In it the members pantomimed slashing their own throat and disemboweling themselves if they were to reveal the oaths and secrets of the temple.


Interesting. So it was just fluff thrown in for no reason. Now it makes sense.
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: Understanding Revelation 13 by the Spirit

Post by _subgenius »

Drifting wrote:Elder Holland confirmed this 'death oath' was part of the temple ceremony when interviewed by the BBC recently.

an interview that has since been debunked on this board...and i am not sure that Elder Holland confirmed any gestures or details about the death oath...did he?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Albion
_Emeritus
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: Understanding Revelation 13 by the Spirit

Post by _Albion »

Toi those who got my point, thank you. To Franktalk, I add my thought that I am totally puzzled as how how your response had even the remotest thing to do with the comparison I made. I have, however, come to expect such obfuscation from some on the board.
_jo1952
_Emeritus
Posts: 1118
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:04 am

Re: Understanding Revelation 13 by the Spirit

Post by _jo1952 »

Drifting wrote:
Elder Holland confirmed this 'death oath' was part of the temple ceremony when interviewed by the BBC recently.


How sad it is to see that the BBC is just like so many of America's media's. This is just another attempt to twist, cut, and paste, in order to further someone's sick agenda. Meh....Satan's influence over all the earth is going to get worse. All believers, regardless of the chosen religion in which they worship God, are going to become victimized even moreso than in either recent or ancient history of mankind.

You must have attended an apostate temple or not been paying attention. Is there a specific reason you didn't attend until 1978?


Yeah, right. :lol:

I didn't attend a Temple until 1978 because I didn't join the LDS Church until 1974.

Blessings,

jo
_Albion
_Emeritus
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: Understanding Revelation 13 by the Spirit

Post by _Albion »

You say you never saw it in the temple? Think back to when, before 1990, you said the words "suffer my life to be taken" you made the cutting motion.
_just me
_Emeritus
Posts: 9070
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:46 pm

Re: Understanding Revelation 13 by the Spirit

Post by _just me »

jo1952 wrote:
just me wrote:Albion was speaking to the old LDS temple ceremony that lasted until...1990 or something. In it the members pantomimed slashing their own throat and disemboweling themselves if they were to reveal the oaths and secrets of the temple.


I've been going to the Temple since 1978; I have never seen this.

Blessings,

jo


Do you recall the protestant minister?

Here is a comparative manuscript of the pre and post-1990 ceremony: http://www.lds-mormon.com/compare.shtml
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
_jo1952
_Emeritus
Posts: 1118
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:04 am

Re: Understanding Revelation 13 by the Spirit

Post by _jo1952 »

just me wrote:
Do you recall the protestant minister?

Here is a comparative manuscript of the pre and post-1990 ceremony: http://www.lds-mormon.com/compare.shtml


Hi Just Me,

Wow, even after reading it I had to sit back and think about it for about an hour or so. I am having flashbacks now to the first few endowment sessions I went through, and I am remembering that this obviously DID take place!! I just didn't remember it!

Through the years I would do other Temple Ordinances - but not many Endowment sessions. Mostly what I recall of the early years of my participation in those sessions was that I was anxious to do things correctly when we were supposed to do them. I didn't want to slow the progress of the session by screwing up. I also remember trying to listen to the promptings of the Holy Ghost so that I could get the spiritual understanding of what was going on. It can be overwhelming for someone who is still at a milk understanding.

With that said, though, as you can see from the older version of the Endowment, the covenants are made to God; not to man. They are symbolic of our sincere desire to keep God's higher laws. For instance, in my physical body, I would die rather than forsake Father or Jesus, even if my physical life was at stake. The older oaths taken were symbolic of our soul being at stake. Sadly, the person interviewing Elder Holland either did not allow him to explain anything; or that part of the conversation was cut out.

To my knowledge there was no secret society established within the Church who would go around and kill anyone who revealed what went on during an Endowment session. For those who kept their promise not to reveal anything, it was and is an issue of sacredness to them. Those who are worldly, or who, after having been Endowed would then talk about the Ordinances performed in the Temple, have broken their promise - they need to seek forgiveness for the welfare of their spiritual self; not for their physical self.

There will be those who will want to make something out of this. So be it. Their actions and words will eventually be addressed to them by God. Also, since these were symbolic, they cannot even compare with the Law of Moses; which were temporal laws. The breaking of some of these temporal laws was punishable by physical death; and by stoning no less.

I am now wondering if the reason these oaths were originally deleted is because a person only goes through an Endowment Session once for themself. All other sessions are done for the dead. Since the dead are unable to break such an oath and reveal the Endowment to anyone, it seems to be unnecessary to make such an oath on behalf of the dead. Also, since I don't know exactly when the Endowment unfortunately became available to the public (had it been revealed by 1990??), it is now not necessary to promise, even symbolically, to not reveal anything.

If anyone knows of any organized group within the Church whose purpose was to enforce the spiritual promises made in the Temple, I would like to hear about it/them. This would concern me very much. I ask this also because I know that the RCC organized their own society within the church to carry out deeds of darkness. They were known as the Jesuits; and it is unclear due to much controversy, as to whether or not the purpose of their existence is the same as it originally was. For those interested, their secret oath has been released to the public. Here is just a taste (and all we used to do was symbolically pantomime our oath with God):

"I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants' heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus.

In confirmation of which, I hereby dedicate my life, my soul and all my corporal powers, and with this dagger which I now receive, I will subscribe my name written in my own blood, in testimony thereof; and should I prove false or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the Militia of the Pope cut off my hands and my feet, and my throat from ear to ear, my belly opened and sulphur burned therein, with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth and my soul be tortured by demons in an eternal hell forever!"


Here is a link you can use to see the entire ceremony and oath:

http://www.remnantofgod.org/jes-oth.htm

Anyway, thank you for pointing out that my memory just is not what it used to be. I apologize for mis-speaking.

Blessings,

jo
_gdemetz
_Emeritus
Posts: 1681
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:59 pm

Re: Understanding Revelation 13 by the Spirit

Post by _gdemetz »

So? Probably Albion and others would have ridiculed the symbolic sacrifices during the time of Moses also if they were there.
Post Reply