Why Do LDS Dismiss the Greater Part of the New Testament?

[_Albion]

gdemetz, when someone proclaims himself superior to virtually all others in spirituality that is self righteous arrogance anyway you look at it and most definitely lacking in Christ-like humility. It is self posturing that can be disregarded.

[_Albion]

On another note, gdemetz, the only righteousness I seek is that given by God through faith in his Son Jesus Christ. (Romans 2-21-22). You can never ever be perfect through your own effort, no matter how many rules you keep, no matter how many good works you do, no matter how hard you try and certainly no matter the puffed up view you might have of yourself and your spirituality . Righteousness is imputed to the believer FROM GOD through faith in Jesus and nothing else. Jesus, the only perfect/righteous person who ever lived was a perfect sin offering for mankind and through faith in him we stand before God made righteous by a righteousness borrowed from him. By the offering of himself he paid my sin debt, and your sin debt, in full. This is the truth that will make you free! "Therefore be perfect" is God's admonition to surrender yourself to his saving grace through Jesus Christ the only source of perfection.

[_gdemetz]

Like almost every thing you state, Albion, that is false also! It is a lie from that evil one! Do you think Christ is a fool and would give us a commandment, "be ye therefore perfect," that we would have no hope of ever attaining?!?

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine."

[_jo1952]

1 John 4 (KJV)

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

19 We love him, because he first loved us.

20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

I have wondered if, when "Christians" deny that the LDS are Christians because they claim we believe in the wrong Jesus, or the wrong Father, or the wrong Holy Ghost, that those "Christians" are thus denying Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. They say and claim that they do believe Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. However, by denying that we believe in the "correct" Jesus Christ who is come in the flesh, are they not also denying that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh?? Are they saying one thing with their mouths, but their hearts are far from Him? Will this judgment they are meting out to us be meted out to them?

The LDS do confess that Jesus has come in the flesh. It is man who has come up with the need to re-define what Jesus is supposed to look like, whether He is the same essence as Father, what is His correct nature, what is His true relationship with Father and with the Holy Ghost. Man eventually came up with the Trinity Dogma which, though man admits that the Trinity is an incomprehensible mystery, has in self-righteousness demanded that others accept this incomprehensible mystery, in order to be considered by man, to indicate that a person has confessed the "correct" Jesus who has come in the flesh. They have placed God in their man-made box. Man has self-righteously gone so far as to say that unless you accept the incomprehensible mystery they have created which they claim defines the "correct" Jesus, "correct" Father, and "correct" Holy Ghost, then you are eternally damned. And so, among other things, they judge others and condemn them. In days gone by they even killed those who refused to agree with them.

Is this showing true love for others.....by condemning them to eternal hell? I have heard them say they are doing this for our own good because they love us. But this does not ring true to me. Even though they have condemned us, we have not condemned them. Which is a manifestation of Godly love? They will point to us and say that we call them apostates. But this is not true (though they refuse to hear what we do say). Our claim is that their religious institutions (the leaders, at various times) have strayed from "present truth" (which Peter speaks about). Like the Pharisees of old, those institutions have twisted the original teachings of Jesus and the Apostles, and now teach as doctrine the commandments of men. Over and over again we have clarified to them that this does not make them apostates; it merely means that they have been taught apostate doctrine.

Jesus did not condemn the people for following the "commandments of men" which the Pharisees taught them. In fact He taught the people that their righteousness would be counted in accordance with how well they followed the teachings and kept the commandments of what they thought was true. It would be the leaders who knew the doctrines were false who will be held accountable.

Now, the LDS do not make Jesus so complicated. The "mystery" of God lies within the Truth which we have not yet had revealed to us as individuals. Thus, the "mystery" is not one which man has created and tries to force others to accept. Inasmuch as it is the Holy Ghost who leads us to all Truth, it is the Holy Ghost whose guidance we seek and whose influence we learn to discern; and we leave our hearts and minds open to whatever possible Truths which Father may deem we are ready to have revealed to us. As such, we do not depend on the words of others, or seek what Theologians have to say about Bible passages, as we know that it is the Holy Ghost who will communicate with our spirit; not what man has to say. Also, when people of other faiths and denominations claim they believe in Jesus and that Jesus has come in the flesh, the LDS accept that these other people DO believe in Jesus who has come in the flesh. We do not condemn them and tell them they are going to spend eternity in hell. Quite the contrary, we offer them such knowledge and hope, for example, that after physical death, souls can still be saved; something which they do not believe - though they are wont to tell us that we are the ones teaching hopelessness.

Because we do claim that we are guided by the Holy Ghost and that some of us share our experiencing of the Holy Ghost, and that we can recognize the difference between what is worldly and what is spiritual (which is what the Bible teaches us to do), they call us self-righteous. Where we continue to seek for Truth, those who have placed God in the man-made box tell us they are content with what they already know...and that they have faith that whatever they don't know doesn't matter. But this attitude is one that the Apostles warned against; instead, the Apostles taught the members of the ancient church to be diligent in ADDING to their faith (being pro-active)....rather than being content in not having the Holy Ghost continue to lead them to all Truth.

May we all desire to know more Truth and to seek it diligently with sincere hearts. May we learn to love one another; for if we claim to love God, but do not love one another, then we are liars and do not really love God.

Blessings,

jo

[_Albion]

Too long a post to even bother with answering all the convoluted points within it. You do appear to say, however, that the Christian world appears to condemn Mormons while Mormons do not condemn the Christian world. Speaking personally, I have no animosity toward Mormons. I have friends who are Mormon, I have lived and worked around them, I have employed Mormons. Overall, they are good people so while I reject the title anti-Mormon I will accept the title anti-Mormonism. I am very opposed to the false theology of Mormonism.

Now to the false idea that Mormons do not condemn anyone. The very idea that Mormons have a corner on all truth is a condemnation of those who do not accept their version of truth. From its very first inception, Mormonism has set itself up as condemning Christianity, placing that condemnation in the mouth of God who supposedly said that all those who believe in it are "corrupt" and their beliefs an "abomination". Is that not condemnation? You simply can't start by claiming everyone else is a liar and expect endearment back. 50,000 plus "missionaries" in the field, the vast majority knocking on the doors of "churched" people and preaching membership in a church rather than the person of Jesus is not condemnation of what they might already have? I think you protest too much

[_Drifting]

Here is an example Mormonism not condemning others...

 

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

 19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

And here, with the benefit of paid PR professionals, is how Mormon.Org portrays the same thing...

In his vision God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, appeared. The Savior told Joseph not to join any of the churches. Although many good people at that time believed in Christ and tried to understand and teach His gospel, they didn’t have the fullness of truth or the authority to baptize and perform other saving ordinances.

[_Albion]

Condemnation from the very inception of the Mormon Gospel as I stated.

[_jo1952]

Too long a post to even bother with answering all the convoluted points within it. You do appear to say, however, that the Christian world appears to condemn Mormons while Mormons do not condemn the Christian world. Speaking personally, I have no animosity toward Mormons. I have friends who are Mormon, I have lived and worked around them, I have employed Mormons. Overall, they are good people so while I reject the title anti-Mormon I will accept the title anti-Mormonism. I am very opposed to the false theology of Mormonism.

I see that you are unwilling to respond to the Biblical teachings contained in my posts. Also, through your own admission of not reading my entire posts, I can see why you have come to false conclusions about what I said.

Now to the false idea that Mormons do not condemn anyone. The very idea that Mormons have a corner on all truth is a condemnation of those who do not accept their version of truth. From its very first inception, Mormonism has set itself up as condemning Christianity, placing that condemnation in the mouth of God who supposedly said that all those who believe in it are "corrupt" and their beliefs an "abomination". Is that not condemnation? You simply can't start by claiming everyone else is a liar and expect endearment back. 50,000 plus "missionaries" in the field, the vast majority knocking on the doors of "churched" people and preaching membership in a church rather than the person of Jesus is not condemnation of what they might already have? I think you protest too much

An extremely false presentation of what the LDS Church believes. I believe that Paul was faced with the same misinterpretations of what he was teaching when he taught the Gentiles. This would eventually cause his death. Did you know that the ancient church also suffered from tremendous in-fighting about what was supposed to be the correct interpretation of doctrine...even while the Apostles were still alive? The LDS missionaries aren't trying to convert people to believe in Christ; their message is that they carry the Restored Gospel. As such, what you describe about the LDS missionaries going to the homes of those who already believe in Christ, is the very same attitude the Apostles dealt with among those who were already members of the church. In other words, even while the Apostles lived, members of the church were straying from the Gospel message as taught by the Apostles. If you will recall, the Apostles taught that there were already false teachers and false prophets among the members.

You did make me smile though. We not only do NOT claim to have a corner on all Truth, we search for Truth wherever we can find it. Inasmuch as all of God's children have free will to choose whether or not they will believe in God, and that those who believe in Christ have many denominations which they can participate in, it is not the least bit unusual for Christians to change denominations throughout their lives as they seek to find a church where they feel that what is being taught is more akin to their personal beliefs and current understandings. You are manifesting a standard acceptable among mainstream Christianity while condemning Joseph Smith for seeking for the very same thing.

I dislike the need to continually point out that the teachings you falsely accuse the LDS Church of, which you obviously dislike, happen to be what the RCC teaches.

You have determined to stick to an agenda which does not include the possibility of increasing your or my current knowledge of the Kingdom of God. You are where you are in your journey because that is where you choose to be; which is exactly the pathway God has prepared for all of us. In His mercy and infinite wisdom, and through the gift of free will which He has given to all of us, God is not going to force us to be anywhere other than where we have chosen to be. I think one of the differences between us is that I am actively seeking to add Truth and knowledge of the Kingdom of God to my current understanding; whereas it does not appear to me that you are seeking for more Truth at this time. The good news is that we are all going to make it!

Blessings,

jo

[_Albion]

Jo, one or two responses to your last post. Firstly, I did read your original post but found it long and full of your own opinion rather than any appeal to specific scripture on any particular topic. Opinions which in my view are based on the false teachings of the Mormon Gospel. If I am wrong in referencing the early Mormon quote, attributed to God, that the beliefs of Christianity are an "abomination" and its believers "currupt", please show where that is inaccurate. Drifting in a follow up post gave the full text and it is clear what was said despite you accusing me of being dishonest with regard to it.

Not being RC I have not made, nor do I make, any defense of their position. While there is much in Catholicism that I might disagree with there are many devout Christians within that church and I think they are quite capable of defending their beliefs as Madelaine does with clarity on this very board.

I commend you in your declaration that you seek truth. Unfortunately, my experience is that Mormons only seek truth as they define it and when it conforms to what they have been told is truth. Jesus is "the way, the truth and the life"...anyone seeking after truth begins and ends with him in a full understanding of who he is and the completeness of his atonement at Calvary. All truth resides in Christ Jesus and has been fully revealed...sufficient for our salvation. The rest is fluff and vain human reasoning and peacocking.

[_Albion]

I did forget to mention that I likely know as much about Mormonism as you do, perhaps more if your include its bizarre history. The more I know of it, the more I find reason to reject it as "another Gospel".