Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

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_just me
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _just me »

LittleNipper wrote:
Do you also believe that Lot's young daughters raped him and got pregnant?

The Bible portrays the good the bad and the ugly. Yes, I certainly do. The very same sort of thing appears to have happened to Noah...


And what is the purpose of the story? How did it get in there and why?
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_subgenius
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _subgenius »

Drifting wrote:Okay, a quick recap on the story:

World wicked, Noah told to build a boat, Noah fills boat with animals and good people (circa 8), people thing he's a looney to build a boat in an area with minimal rain fall, rains for 40 days and nights, whole earth flooded, everyone and everthing dies except the people and animals on the ark.

Now, put yourself in the shoes of the unrighteous people; the ones who mocked Noah for building a boat because a flood was coming.

Okay, you don't believe him. But then it satrts to rain. A lot. In a few hours puddles start to appear, in a fews hours streams become torrents, in a few days perhaps low lying areas start to disappear underwater. It reaches your shins, then days later it's up to your waist. Houses become half filled with water, animals start swimming around and drowning. Small children and babies have to be held above the adults heads etc.
People are moving to higher and higher ground as less and less land becomes visible. And so it continues until, after forty days there ain't no land to be had. You swim for as long as you can and then drown, along with your wife and kids.

Here's the unbelievable bit.

Why, at no point did you think "hmmm, perhaps Noah was right let's build a boat"? Boats existed, people went fishing etc. Why not stash some of these boats with food like a lifeboat?

Why, at no point did you think "hmmm, perhaps Noah was right, let's go and get on his boat"? 8 people could not have resisted the sodden mob that came rushing up the hill to board him when they saw the waters rising.

No, instead, you ignored Noah's boat, ingnored your own boats, ignored the urgency of perhaps building a boat and allowed the waters to slowly rise until you were fish food.

not that you bother to actually be informed, both about science or theology...but you have left out many important details.
One, it was not just rain that caused the flooding.
Two, you ignore the purpose of the flood.
Three, it is not stated that every living thing "drowned" ( Gen 7:4 "..and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made" AND Gen 7:23 "So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air.") - cause of death is not attributed to water.
Four, it is likely that Noah's boat was protected from having water fill it from above (see Gen 7:16 "shut him in"), a typical fishing boat will not stay afloat if the rains are so heavy as to fill it...anyone who has been in one, in the rain knows this.
Six, a blind eye is often turned to by people so deeply entrenched in their "sinful ways", that they don't recognize the flood until it is to late......whispers to the side - 'like you'
and lucky Seven, the flood waters are never termed as a force of death, more likely as a means to cleanse.

I think a more interesting topic for discussion is found in the first words of Genesis 8
"Then God remembered Noah..."
remembered?
what was God doing for 150 days that He suddenly went "Oh yeah, Noah is still on that boat".....
....jus sayin....more interesting than highlighting the hypocrisy of those who exclaim that a global flood was, or is, impossible based on their speculation which has the same justification as exclaiming that it is possible.....jus sayin
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_moksha
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _moksha »

LittleNipper wrote:
just me wrote:Do you also believe that Lot's young daughters raped him and got pregnant?

The Bible portrays the good the bad and the ugly. Yes, I certainly do. The very same sort of thing appears to have happened to Noah...


Sounds like someone should have warned Noah about Lot. Was Noah on one of his benders at that time? Perhaps he was asking for it, especially if he also had on a short skirt and high heels.
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_subgenius
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _subgenius »

krose wrote:
Drifting wrote:... until you were fish food.

Well, this part couldn't be true, because fish and other sea life would not have survived a water event as described in the Bible.

scientifically has been proven otherwise....
but the important detail is that if God could flood the earth, then you must concede that He could suspend other natural laws for His purposes. But your desire for God to succumb to the laws of nature surely highlights your lack of knowledge on the topic about God's nature and character.
Odd how many who "doubt" God, do not even know what the ydo not believe in.
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_moksha
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _moksha »

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that there is not enough water in the world to raise sea levels sufficiently to cover the Himalayas and once flooded, there would be no mechanism for drainage.

This biblical story was an adaptation from some much older Mesopotamian Epics relating fanciful events from the seasonal flooding of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers. The story still present us with some powerful symbolic truths about being prepared for disasters and keeping both your pants on when you are drunk and your temper in check when you have that inevitable hangover afterward.
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_son of Ishmael
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _son of Ishmael »

Here is something that I never understood. In the book of Moses, God is showing Enoch a vision and in it he sees the flood and feels real bad and he asks God to bless the children of Noah and so then:

51 And the Lord could not withhold; and he covenanted with Enoch, and sware unto him with an oath, that he would stay the floods; that he would call upon the children of Noah;

52 And he sent forth an unalterable decree, that a remnant of his seed should always be found among all nations, while the earth should stand (Moses 7:51-52)

This does not make any sense. If Moses is a direct descendant of Enoch then all of mankind would be of his seed. Why does God say that a remnant of Enoch's seed would always be found among all nations if we are all his descendants. They only way it would make any sense is if it was not a global flood and that not all of the people died.
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_son of Ishmael
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _son of Ishmael »

subgenius wrote:but the important detail is that if God could flood the earth, then you must concede that He could suspend other natural laws for His purposes...


Talk about the ultimate get out of jail free card. That alone solves every single problem with religion in general and Mormonism in specific.

"How come there are no pre-Colombian horse bones in the Americas?"

"Because God suspended the natural laws for his purposes. Next Question"
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_Themis
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _Themis »

son of Ishmael wrote:
subgenius wrote:but the important detail is that if God could flood the earth, then you must concede that He could suspend other natural laws for His purposes...


Talk about the ultimate get out of jail free card. That alone solves every single problem with religion in general and Mormonism in specific.

"How come there are no pre-Colombian horse bones in the Americas?"

"Because God suspended the natural laws for his purposes. Next Question"


I like how he avoids bringing up any evidence to how it could happen, and then in this post uses the magic card. Not only did God uses magic to make it happen he also uses magic to make it look like nothing happened. All the people are brought back to life(magic), etc.
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_krose
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _krose »

son of Ishmael wrote:Talk about the ultimate get out of jail free card. That alone solves every single problem with religion in general and Mormonism in specific.

Exactly. I don't know why they ever bother with any other apologetic argument. That covers it all.

But it does bring up the question of why God would go to the trouble of manipulating nature to accomplish his goals, with so many better options available. If he wanted to wipe the slate clean and start over (by which I mean kill all the men, women, and children, especially those irretrievably wicked new-born babies), flooding the whole earth is an extremely messy and inefficient way to go about it.

Surely Almighty God could easily send out a death curse to wipe out everyone but the chosen eight (including all those evil babies, of course -- the little jerks had it coming). That way he could avoid the collateral damage to the innocent animals, plants, and delicately balanced ecosystems.
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_Drifting
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _Drifting »

subgenius wrote:One, it was not just rain that caused the flooding.

What else does it say caused the flooding?

Two, you ignore the purpose of the flood.

How is that relevant to proving it actually happened?

Three, it is not stated that every living thing "drowned" ( Gen 7:4 "..and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made" AND Gen 7:23 "So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air.") - cause of death is not attributed to water.

And yet the Church (as demonstrated by the following quote taken from the heading to Moses Chapter 8) seems to think that it was...
Methuselah prophesies—Noah and his sons preach the gospel—Great wickedness prevails—The call to repentance is unheeded—God decrees the destruction of all flesh by the Flood.


Four, it is likely that Noah's boat was protected from having water fill it from above (see Gen 7:16 "shut him in"), a typical fishing boat will not stay afloat if the rains are so heavy as to fill it...anyone who has been in one, in the rain knows this.

It is likely that anyone in a fishing boat that is gradually filling with water would be bright enough to think of scooping it out before the boat sunk. Anyone who has been in one, in the rain knows this.

Six, a blind eye is often turned to by people so deeply entrenched in their "sinful ways", that they don't recognize the flood until it is to late......whispers to the side - 'like you'

What happened to 'Five'?

and lucky Seven, the flood waters are never termed as a force of death, more likely as a means to cleanse.

Which seems to be a repition of...
Three, it is not stated that every living thing "drowned" ( Gen 7:4 "..and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made" AND Gen 7:23 "So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air.") - cause of death is not attributed to water.


In the UK today we are going to receive a months worth of rain in a mere 24 hours...should I find some wood...?
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