Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

[_LittleNipper]

Do you also believe that Lot's young daughters raped him and got pregnant? And what is the purpose of the story? How did it get in there and why?

I shows how the sexual depravity of others (and sin in general) can and does influence, undermining even righteous people. One cannot live surrounded by sin, filth, and sexual depravity and not be influenced in some way or another. This is why I morn as the world embraces "gay" marriage. It is sinking deeper into the very same diabolical pit of degradation disguised as love ------ just one more rung down the ladder.

[_LittleNipper]

Here is something that I never understood. In the book of Moses, God is showing Enoch a vision and in it he sees the flood and feels real bad and he asks God to bless the children of Noah and so then:

51 And the Lord could not withhold; and he covenanted with Enoch, and sware unto him with an oath, that he would stay the floods; that he would call upon the children of Noah;

52 And he sent forth an unalterable decree, that a remnant of his seed should always be found among all nations, while the earth should stand (Moses 7:51-52)

This does not make any sense. If Moses is a direct descendant of Enoch then all of mankind would be of his seed. Why does God say that a remnant of Enoch's seed would always be found among all nations if we are all his descendants. They only way it would make any sense is if it was not a global flood and that not all of the people died.

Perhaps you are being shown of God how the book of Moses is not scriptural. It is not Genesis that is in error. Satan has ways of manipulating truth and error in order to sway people's thinking.

[_krose]

One cannot live surrounded by sin, filth, and sexual depravity and not be influenced in some way or another. This is why I morn as the world embraces "gay" marriage. It is sinking deeper into the very same diabolical pit of degradation disguised as love ------ just one more rung down the ladder.

You do realize, don't you, that gay sex will continue to happen at the same rate in this "depraved" world, no matter what the Supreme Court or the various state constitutions say about the legality of gay marriage?

Or do you pretend to believe that not allowing loving gay couples to officially commit to each other for life will somehow cause young gays and lesbians to turn away from their "filth" and become straight?

[_son of Ishmael]

Talk about the ultimate get out of jail free card. That alone solves every single problem with religion in general and Mormonism in specific.

Exactly. I don't know why they ever bother with any other apologetic argument. That covers it all.

But it does bring up the question of why God would go to the trouble of manipulating nature to accomplish his goals, with so many better options available. If he wanted to wipe the slate clean and start over (by which I mean kill all the men, women, and children, especially those irretrievably wicked new-born babies), flooding the whole earth is an extremely messy and inefficient way to go about it.

Surely Almighty God could easily send out a death curse to wipe out everyone but the chosen eight (including all those evil babies, of course -- the little jerks had it coming). That way he could avoid the collateral damage to the innocent animals, plants, and delicately balanced ecosystems.

Yeah he could have just disintegrated everyone with fire from his eyes. Much more impressive and a lot less clean up afterwards. Could you imagine how gross it would have been after all the water went back to where ever it was before with all those stinking bloated bodies of animals and people lying around?

But they had it coming, especially the babies, freaking evil babies always causing problems.

[_son of Ishmael]

Here is something that I never understood. In the book of Moses, God is showing Enoch a vision and in it he sees the flood and feels real bad and he asks God to bless the children of Noah and so then:

51 And the Lord could not withhold; and he covenanted with Enoch, and sware unto him with an oath, that he would stay the floods; that he would call upon the children of Noah;

52 And he sent forth an unalterable decree, that a remnant of his seed should always be found among all nations, while the earth should stand (Moses 7:51-52)

This does not make any sense. If Moses is a direct descendant of Enoch then all of mankind would be of his seed. Why does God say that a remnant of Enoch's seed would always be found among all nations if we are all his descendants. They only way it would make any sense is if it was not a global flood and that not all of the people died.

Perhaps you are being shown of God how the book of Moses is not scriptural. It is not Genesis that is in error. Satan has ways of manipulating truth and error in order to sway people's thinking.

Yes but I don't believe Genesis either. Once I lost my belief in the Book of Mormon, D&C, and PofGP, the Old Testament and New Testament were soon to follow

[_Themis]

Talk about the ultimate get out of jail free card. That alone solves every single problem with religion in general and Mormonism in specific.

Exactly. I don't know why they ever bother with any other apologetic argument. That covers it all.

But it does bring up the question of why God would go to the trouble of manipulating nature to accomplish his goals, with so many better options available. If he wanted to wipe the slate clean and start over (by which I mean kill all the men, women, and children, especially those irretrievably wicked new-born babies), flooding the whole earth is an extremely messy and inefficient way to go about it.

Surely Almighty God could easily send out a death curse to wipe out everyone but the chosen eight (including all those evil babies, of course -- the little jerks had it coming). That way he could avoid the collateral damage to the innocent animals, plants, and delicately balanced ecosystems.

The next question should be why did he bring them all back to life and make it as though nothing happened.

[_LittleNipper]

One cannot live surrounded by sin, filth, and sexual depravity and not be influenced in some way or another. This is why I morn as the world embraces "gay" marriage. It is sinking deeper into the very same diabolical pit of degradation disguised as love ------ just one more rung down the ladder.

You do realize, don't you, that gay sex will continue to happen at the same rate in this "depraved" world, no matter what the Supreme Court or the various state constitutions say about the legality of gay marriage?

Or do you pretend to believe that not allowing loving gay couples to officially commit to each other for life will somehow cause young gays and lesbians to turn away from their "filth" and become straight?

Actually, I feel that it will get very much worse. And I feel that open gay sexual preoccupation will influence what "normal" sexual couples will engage in. I feel more adolescents will experiment. The fact is, that just as people are not born drunks, experimentation with alcohol, cigarettes and drugs, doesn't breed sobriety. So tampering with sexuality will not encourage modesty, purity, and celibacy before marriage. Looking for parenting materal will fall even more to the bottom of the real reasons for marriage checklist.

[_LittleNipper]

Yes but I don't believe Genesis either. Once I lost my belief in the Book of Mormon, D&C, and PofGP, the Old Testament and New Testament were soon to follow

Well, God really does care for you and wants you to just trust in Him and not in your merits. I feel that you are hurt, but I do care. If there is a way I might help, please let me know. I do believe God is working on you but sometimes he needs to get loose baggage out of the way. A person cannot be partially saved. It is always either all or nothing. Note I said saved. That doesn't mean that there are not issues; however, those other issues are either temporal or meritorious rewarding in nature; however, sin in no way destroys one's salvation.

[_Franktalk]

Talk about the ultimate get out of jail free card. That alone solves every single problem with religion in general and Mormonism in specific.

Actually that statement is the key. If one looks at the past geology and accepts miracles then the evidence is all there for a flood. If one looks at the past without miracles then you will see no miracles. We are to live in faith so no trace evidence will bring you to God. In fact if you bracket what you see within natural boundaries then you will see just what you have destined yourself to see. So your statement applies both ways. The get natural card allows for a natural past, and a get miracle card allows for miracles. Now you and many others may say that is not fair. But it is. There is nothing you can do to prove that the past has happened the way you say it has. And the same holds for me. I can offer no proof that the past contains all of the miracles I say it does. All each of us has is an argument and a story.

This may not sit well with you. You may say "but I have evidence", then I will say "your evidence assumes your conclusions" which is a nice way way of saying your argument has circular reasoning, of course mine does as well. So it all does boil down to faith. You may have faith that all things can be explained in natural terms. And my faith says that all things can be explained in supernatural terms.

Where you see a linear past that looks like today I see a past that is vastly different than today.

[_subgenius]

One, it was not just rain that caused the flooding.

What else does it say caused the flooding?

perhaps you choose not to believe the story ,because you chose to never read it.
Genesis 7:11
"...all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened"
"...the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened"
"...all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened"
"...all the fountains of the great deep were burst open, and the sky's windows were opened"

and so on

Two, you ignore the purpose of the flood.

How is that relevant to proving it actually happened?

people "being aware" was your justification, not mine.

Three, it is not stated that every living thing "drowned" ( Gen 7:4 "..and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made" AND Gen 7:23 "So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air.") - cause of death is not attributed to water.

And yet the Church (as demonstrated by the following quote taken from the heading to Moses Chapter 8) seems to think that it was...
Methuselah prophesies—Noah and his sons preach the gospel—Great wickedness prevails—The call to repentance is unheeded—God decrees the destruction of all flesh by the Flood.

Obviously the event is being referenced, as a distinction is made between flood and the Flood. Just like saying Jews died in the Holocaust, the Holocaust did not kill them, it was the Nazi guns, poison, etc..
you are still wrong about assuming the cause of death.

Four, it is likely that Noah's boat was protected from having water fill it from above (see Gen 7:16 "shut him in"), a typical fishing boat will not stay afloat if the rains are so heavy as to fill it...anyone who has been in one, in the rain knows this.

It is likely that anyone in a fishing boat that is gradually filling with water would be bright enough to think of scooping it out before the boat sunk. Anyone who has been in one, in the rain knows this.

but not heavy rain which falls faster than one can "scoop"...especially when panicked and when water is bursting forth from below. You obviously have never been in a boat in heavy heavy rain.

Six, a blind eye is often turned to by people so deeply entrenched in their "sinful ways", that they don't recognize the flood until it is to late......whispers to the side - 'like you'

What happened to 'Five'?

why the concern? Do you need there to be a five?

and lucky Seven, the flood waters are never termed as a force of death, more likely as a means to cleanse.

Which seems to be a repition of...
Three, it is not stated that every living thing "drowned" ( Gen 7:4 "..and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made" AND Gen 7:23 "So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air.") - cause of death is not attributed to water.

more like a repetition of #2

In the UK today we are going to receive a months worth of rain in a mere 24 hours...should I find some wood...?

I don't believe you are intended to be amongst that crowd...perhaps you should just get a "scoop".