How The Mormons Make Money - Bloomberg article

[_Drifting]

In our Stake members are required to clean the Chapel including the toilets after the janitors were laid off by the Church.
In our Stake the Church does not have funds for social activities and things like EFY. Members have to fund these things in addition to their donations.
In our Stake gardening on Church grounds is done by unpaid volunteers from each ward.
In our Stake members are requested to get involved in indexing records as unpaid volunteers.
In our Stake members are periodically press ganged into volunteering unpaid at Church farming enterprises.

But at least Salt Lake City has somewhere upmarket for people to shop.
As Monson stated at the grand opening..."one, two, three...LET'S GO SHOPPING!"

Hi Drift! Serious question. Why do they stay?

I'm a nevermo, so I don't really understand the draw to that church. What forces people to make that kind of sacrifice? Why bother?

Well, I guess you'd have to ask them individually.
I attend Church but do not pay tithing, do not accept callings or assignments and absolutely do not clean the Church. I attend to support my wife who has intimated she wouldn't want to face the questions and pitying looks that a spouses inactivity would bring. I'm okay with doing that for her.

The use of donations is one big reason why I do not sustain the Leadership. Articles like this show me I'm right.

[_Drifting]

Surplus revenues have to be retained by the non-profit entity, whereas a for profit entity may distribute surplus revenue in a number of ways. Typically this is realized in dividends, but the Church is able to shift revenue to humanitarian causes etc

The Church has over a period of a quarter of a century, shifted $1.3 billion to humanitarian aid (which are donations over and above tithing).
And in only a single solitary project spent $5 billion for the commercial development called City Creek.

Led by Christ? Not likely.

[_ludwigm]

--- keeping 44,000 cows and 1,300 bulls ---

until they reach the age 110...

Those must be very tired bulls!

... an old joke about bulls ...
which are standing on a top of a hill, watching the cows below...

- We should run down and nail some of them - says the youngest one.
- No - says the older - we slowly walk down then catch the whole herd.
- No, no, we remain here... who wants something, should come up here - says the third.
Then the oldest: - We must flee!!! They are coming!!!

[_son of Ishmael]

I still don't understand why the church needs to have so many for profit businesses. Of course maybe I would understand if church was more open with what they do with the profits.

[_hatersinmyward]

Utah is ranked 50 in public education, that's dead last.

Why is Utah in last place? Because Utahns don't get taxed, they get tithed.

So mission accomplished, keep the cult members dumbed down.

[_Albion]

Do other churches operate businesses? While not strictly a church, does the Southern Baptist Convention operate businesses...how about the Methodist Church...the Presbyterian Church, or the Episcopalians...anyone know? I suspect that some might have investments to safeguard and grow income but does their leadership split time operating the spiritual affairs of their church and capitalist affairs? There is only one imperative in the Great Commission.

[_hatersinmyward]

Do other churches operate businesses? While not strictly a church, does the Southern Baptist Convention operate businesses...how about the Methodist Church...the Presbyterian Church, or the Episcopalians...anyone know? I suspect that some might have investments to safeguard and grow income but does their leadership split time operating the spiritual affairs of their church and capitalist affairs? There is only one imperative in the Great Commission.

Isn't the COJCOLDS the only true religion?


Mormonism(the Book of Mormon) is designed to decieve people.

The Methodists and Presbyterians don't teach fabrications(unlike Mormonism) they teach using different interpretations.

[_subgenius]

1. The article confirms all General Authorities receive a salary.

not in dispute, and is widely known...however, the do not receive a salary, the receive a stipend. As usual you characterize one thing as another as if there were no difference, when clearly there is.

2. The article confirms that when Church businesses struggle for cash flow they can go to the Prophet and get extra cash. If that cash doesn't come from tithing then it comes from the proceeds of tithing.

not confirmed by that article - in fact article article confirms that tithing is not used for the for-profit businesses.

3. The article confirms that $5 billion is being spent on the City Creek project. City Creek is in America (is it not?). That's FIVE BILLION DOLLARS (4 times the total amount of humanitarian expenditure for the last 25 years) on one project. Then there's the PCC, the hunting reserves, the ranches etc etc all in the US of A.

you assume the 5 billion was paid in full and in cash.....which is often bad business in America. Likely there was financing and investors involved and tax incentives - all of which can be included in that 5 billion total.

4. The article confirms that the City Creek project is about urban renewal and not about making a profit. In fact the spokesperson is quoted as saying nobody would entertain the project on a commercial basis.

which is often the case with any urban renewal project in our country...and private investors will still develop because of a greater cause than an attractive profit margin. I have dealt with several myself. It really depends on whether one is short-sighted or visionary...obviously you side with the logic of the former and have had no experience with the latter.

5. The spokesperson stated that the business's utilised 1400 non paid volunteers (Missionaries). Admittedly, after Church PR vetted the article they got him to issue a retraction to say not all the 1400 were unpaid.

you are misrepresenting how the article termed "missionaries", i understood it that these were not out of the mtc missionaries.

In our Stake members are required to clean the Chapel including the toilets after the janitors were laid off by the Church.

and we are humbled and blessed for the experience...and we take neither the building nor those duties for granted.

In our Stake the Church does not have funds for social activities and things like EFY. Members have to fund these things in addition to their donations.

Stake budgets are reflective of what the Stake can "afford" as seen in their tithing...with members such as yourself, no wonder the coffer is dry.

In our Stake gardening on Church grounds is done by unpaid volunteers from each ward.

not to nit-pick but being unpaid implies volunteer...or slave...you are being redundant...paid volunteers do not exist.

In our Stake members are requested to get involved in indexing records as unpaid volunteers.

in my stake everything is requested as "volunteer"...service is viewed that way by us and we often see the divine nature in all that we do...perhaps one day you will too.

In our Stake members are periodically press ganged into volunteering unpaid at Church farming enterprises.

yet you have the ability to say "no"....which you likely do most every time.

But at least Salt Lake City has somewhere upmarket for people to shop.
As Monson stated at the grand opening..."one, two, three...LET'S GO SHOPPING!"

not sure what your objection is here.....but it seems that you are jealous.

[_Drifting]

1. The article confirms all General Authorities receive a salary.

not in dispute, and is widely known...however, the do not receive a salary, the receive a stipend. As usual you characterize one thing as another as if there were no difference, when clearly there is.

"A fixed pay, salary; retribution for work done; the income of an ecclesiastical living."
Those things you're splitting appear to be hairs...

2. The article confirms that when Church businesses struggle for cash flow they can go to the Prophet and get extra cash. If that cash doesn't come from tithing then it comes from the proceeds of tithing.

not confirmed by that article - in fact article article confirms that tithing is not used for the for-profit businesses.

I think I allowed for ths by saying 'the proceeds of tithing'.

3. The article confirms that $5 billion is being spent on the City Creek project. City Creek is in America (is it not?). That's FIVE BILLION DOLLARS (4 times the total amount of humanitarian expenditure for the last 25 years) on one project. Then there's the PCC, the hunting reserves, the ranches etc etc all in the US of A.

you assume the 5 billion was paid in full and in cash.....which is often bad business in America. Likely there was financing and investors involved and tax incentives - all of which can be included in that 5 billion total.

I think you will find I am correct and that the Church in several PR pieces has explained that no loans etc were used. I see you agree tat City Creek, paid for with liquid funds, is bad business.

4. The article confirms that the City Creek project is about urban renewal and not about making a profit. In fact the spokesperson is quoted as saying nobody would entertain the project on a commercial basis.

which is often the case with any urban renewal project in our country...and private investors will still develop because of a greater cause than an attractive profit margin. I have dealt with several myself. It really depends on whether one is short-sighted or visionary...obviously you side with the logic of the former and have had no experience with the latter.

I'm all for urban renewal, but was Salt Lake City te most in need city in the world? Thought not.

5. The spokesperson stated that the business's utilised 1400 non paid volunteers (Missionaries). Admittedly, after Church PR vetted the article they got him to issue a retraction to say not all the 1400 were unpaid.

you are misrepresenting how the article termed "missionaries", i understood it that these were not out of the mtc missionaries.

I don't think I mentioned MTC...oh no, I didn't. So shw me where I misrepresented what MCMullin actually said.

In our Stake members are required to clean the Chapel including the toilets after the janitors were laid off by the Church.

and we are humbled and blessed for the experience...and we take neither the building nor those duties for granted.

Good for you, Mr Cheap Labour.

In our Stake the Church does not have funds for social activities and things like EFY. Members have to fund these things in addition to their donations.

Stake budgets are reflective of what the Stake can "afford" as seen in their tithing...with members such as yourself, no wonder the coffer is dry.

So, by your logic, the poor impoverished Stakes don't get as much as the Hollywood stakes? Really? The programmes of the Church are only available if you've got the dosh? Really?

In our Stake gardening on Church grounds is done by unpaid volunteers from each ward.

not to nit-pick but being unpaid implies volunteer...or slave...you are being redundant...paid volunteers do not exist.

Demonstrably untrue. Lots of people volunteer for things they get paid for. GA's for example...

In our Stake members are requested to get involved in indexing records as unpaid volunteers.

in my stake everything is requested as "volunteer"...service is viewed that way by us and we often see the divine nature in all that we do...perhaps one day you will too.

If you work harder for more blessings I can put my feet up.

In our Stake members are periodically press ganged into volunteering unpaid at Church farming enterprises.

yet you have the ability to say "no"....which you likely do most every time.

It's called being an adult.

But at least Salt Lake City has somewhere upmarket for people to shop.
As Monson stated at the grand opening..."one, two, three...LET'S GO SHOPPING!"

not sure what your objection is here.....but it seems that you are jealous.

Monson has the chance to speak to the world, at a time when Holland is visiting the impoverished continent of Africa where children are starving, and he chooses to say to te world "Let's go shopping"...

Led by Christ? Not likely.

[_Albion]

The Oxford Dictionary defines "stipend" as: "a fixed regular sum paid as a salary or as expenses to a clergyman, teacher, or public official" I think often people like to use the term "stipend" thinking that it suggests something small or even meagerly...something akin to a "a living allowance" which also carries to connotation that the amount isn't very much. In reality, a stipend or even a "living allowance" can be an indeterminate amount and not necessarily as small amount. I don care little how much the leaders of the Mormon Church earn since none of my money goes to the LDS corporation. All I am left to do is shake my head at the willingness of Mormons to give of their substance without any kind of accounting no matter how they view their leadership. Since the Mormon leaders I have had experience of demonstrated nothing but human failings, that is a blind obedience too far I think.