Contradiction in the Book of Mormon?

[_Albion]

I think the argument that Jesus did not reveal all truth diminishes him. Jesus is all truth..."I am the way, the truth and the life." All truth necessary for salvation has been revealed in scripture and Jesus himself is the epitome of that truth. To assert otherwise is false teaching.

[_Tobin]

I think the argument that Jesus did not reveal all truth diminishes him. Jesus is all truth..."I am the way, the truth and the life." All truth necessary for salvation has been revealed in scripture and Jesus himself is the epitome of that truth. To assert otherwise is false teaching.

Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Now isn't this interesting. Here we have Jesus, resurrected and back from the Father and all the Bible mentions about it this one passing verse. Now, I just wonder what wonderful things he told them. I wouldn't be so dismissive of what Mormons have to say if I were you.

[_Mittens]

Daniel 2 tells us when the Kingdom arrived

41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 43 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”

Head of Gold is the Babylonian Empire
Breasts and arms of silver is the Medo-Persian Empire
Belly and thighs of brass is the Macedonian Empire
Legs of Iron is the Roman Empire
Feet of iron and clay is Rome broken into Ten Kingdoms

1. Alemanni - Germany.
2. Franks - France.
3. Burgundians - Switzerland.
4. Suevi - Portugal.
5. Vandals - Exterminated.
6. Visigoths - Spain.
7. Anglo-Saxons - England.
8. Ostrogoths - Exterminated.
9. Lombards - Italy.
10. Heruli - Exterminated.



Notice in verse 44
God would set up a kingdom which would never be destroyed during the Roman Empire and it would fill the whole earth. Would Jesus come down from his throne in heaven die a death so terrible and horrific death ....that it would only last 70 years

[_gdemetz]

Albion, you and Mittens, and especially you are way off base, as usual! Christ church was founded upon the principle or rock of REVELATION, and when the church was restored in fulfillment of BIBLICAL prophesy and more revelations were received, then you want to say that it was adding to the Bible! The Bible itself states that truth will spring out of the earth! Where does the Bible state that it is the only scripture?!?

Mittens, you are wrong in the last part of your interpretation of Daniel 2. Christ set up His kingdom during His earthly ministry, during the time of the "iron legs," but because of apostasy and persecution it became necessary for it to be restored. This time of restoration refers to the last days when the "little stone" which represents the restored church of Jesus Christ strikes the image on the feet, or comes and eventually causes the fall of Babylon, or these earthly kingdoms. This certainly did not happen in the days of the kingdoms you mentioned which were immediately after the Roman Empire! However, it did happen in the last days. The church Christ set up was actually restored again with it's foundation of prophets and apostles, other offices, true priesthood, baptism by immersion, the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.! God certainly did not set up any kingdom during the time of those you mentioned!

[_gdemetz]

Albion, you and Mittens, and especially you are way off base, as usual! Christ church was founded upon the principle or rock of REVELATION, and when the church was restored in fulfillment of BIBLICAL prophesy and more revelations were received, then you want to say that it was adding to the Bible! The Bible itself states that truth will spring out of the earth! Where does the Bible state that it is the only scripture?!?

Mittens, you are wrong in the last part of your interpretation of Daniel 2. Christ set up His kingdom during His earthly ministry, during the time of the "iron legs," but because of apostasy and persecution it became necessary for it to be restored. This time of restoration refers to the last days when the "little stone" which represents the restored church of Jesus Christ strikes the image on the feet, or comes and eventually causes the fall of Babylon, or these earthly kingdoms. This certainly did not happen in the days of the kingdoms you mentioned which were immediately after the Roman Empire! However, it did happen in the last days. The church Christ set up was actually restored again with it's foundation of prophets and apostles, other offices, true priesthood, baptism by immersion, the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.! God certainly did not set up any kingdom during the time of those you mentioned!

[_Mittens]

The Rock was Jesus


1 Corinthians 10
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
3 all ate the same spiritual food,
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.


if the Rock was revelation, why isn't your religion called "the Church Of Revelation of Latter Days Saints"

I think you know better

[_gdemetz]

It's true that Christ is the rock, the chief cornerstone of the church, but in context, Peter had received a revelation confirming that Christ was literally the Son of God. Therefore Christ tells him that upon this principle, revelation from God, Christ would build His church! The true church as long as it exists is built on this principle, revelation from Christ, or God, and not man made doctrine!

[_Mittens]

The Book of Mormon must have man made doctrine then since it teaches the Trinity

God in Three Person Calvin Besiner

When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.

We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance ) of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit p 24

“The Nicene Creed, then, with centuries of theological discussion and controversy behind it, still teaches of the Trinity as the New Testament does: that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, while distinct from each other personally, are the same God” p 153

2 Nephi 31:
21And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.


Alma 11:
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Mormon 7:
7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

The Testimony of Three Witnesses
And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris

Doctrine and Covenants 20 :
28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.



Trinity

The doctrine of the Trinity in the godhead includes the three following particulars, viz. (a) There is only one God, one divine nature; (b) but in this divine nature there is the distinction of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, as three (subjects or persons); and (c) these three-have equally, and in common with one another, the nature and perfection of supreme divinity. It was the custom in former times for theologians to blend their own speculations and those of others with the statement of the Bible doctrine. It is customary now to exhibit first the simple doctrine of the Bible, and afterwards, in a separate part, the speculations of the learned respecting it.
(from McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- being [ all Synonyms ]

[_Albion]

gdemetz, I suspect there is very little difference between Mittens and myself when it comes to Biblical Christian doctrine except perhaps in the way we articulate it. I am very happy to be perceived by you as "off base'" if you are comparing me with the corrupted Biblical interpretations of Mormonism. It's a case of getting the cart before the horse in that you use what Smith says as the standard and seek to prop it up out of the Bible rather than using the Bible as the standard against which Smith's claims should be tested. When this is done he is found wanting and is exposed as the charlatan he was.

[_Mittens]

The Book of Mormon was obviously written by someone who believed the Creedal Formula of the Trinity

TRINITY
The coexistence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the unity of the Godhead (divine nature or essence). The doctrine of the trinity means that within the being and activity of the one God there are three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Although the word trinity does not appear in the Bible, the "trinitarian formula" is mentioned in the Great Commission (Matt 28:19) and in the benediction of the apostle Paul's Second Epistle to the Corinthians (2 Cor 13:14).
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)


Trinity
used to express the doctrine of the unity of God as subsisting in three distinct Persons. This word is derived from the Gr.
trias
, first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.(from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)




we are not using Biblical language when we define what is expressed by it as the doctrine that there is one only and true God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three coeternal and coequal Persons, the same in substance but distinct in subsistence. A doctrine so defined can be spoken of as a Biblical doctrine only on the principle that the sense of Scripture is Scripture. And the definition of a Biblical doctrine in such un-Biblical language can be justified only on the principle that it is better to preserve the truth of Scripture than the words of Scripture. The doctrine of the Trinity lies in Scripture in solution; when it is crystallized from its solvent it does not cease to be Scriptural, but only comes into clearer view. Or, to speak without figure, the doctrine of the Trinity is given to us in Scripture, not in formulated definition, but in fragmentary allusions; when we assemble the disjecta membra into their organic unity, we are not passing from Scripture, but entering more thoroughly into the meaning of Scripture. We may state the doctrine in TRINITY The coexistence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the unity of the Godhead (divine nature or essence). The doctrine of the trinity means that within the being and activity of the one God there are three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Although the word trinity does not appear in the Bible, the "trinitarian formula" is mentioned in the Great Commission (Matt 28:19) and in the benediction of the apostle Paul's Second Epistle to the Corinthians (2 Cor 13:14).
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)




1. we are not using Biblical language when we define what is expressed by it as the doctrine that there is one only and true God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three coeternal and coequal Persons, the same in substance but distinct in subsistence. A doctrine so defined can be spoken of as a Biblical doctrine only on the principle that the sense of Scripture is Scripture. And the definition of a Biblical doctrine in such un-Biblical language can be justified only on the principle that it is better to preserve the truth of Scripture than the words of Scripture. The doctrine of the Trinity lies in Scripture in solution; when it is crystallized from its solvent it does not cease to be Scriptural, but only comes into clearer view. Or, to speak without figure, the doctrine of the Trinity is given to us in Scripture, not in formulated definition, but in fragmentary allusions; when we assemble the disjecta membra into their organic unity, we are not passing from Scripture, but entering more thoroughly into the meaning of Scripture. We may state the doctrine in technical terms, supplied by philosophical reflection; but the doctrine stated is a genuinely Scriptural doctrine.
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- being [ all Synonyms ]