Adam, first man circa 4,000 bc....?

[_Albion]

Drifting, he did say "likely". To me cult is as cult does and it is interesting that it is usually only such groups as Mormons, JWs, Scientologists, Moonies and their like, generally termed modern cults by much of the world, who claim they and they alone are right and everyone else is wrong.

[_LittleNipper]

Exactly what I believe. The Church is the assembly of believers and the union of all the living saved or saints of Christ. Methodist, Presbyterians, Baptists, etc., have not cornered the market. And any religious group that thinks it has is likely a cult. A cult assumes the focus and places it on rituals and leadership "in addition to" God --- who may often become second fiddle to organizational control/manipulation.

So when the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints proclaims itself as the one and only true Chrurch, that is effectively identifying itself as a cult?

Yes, because they say they are the one and only. They dictate ALL doctrine. They call everyone one else's Bible based faith apostate. They say the Bible isn't enough. They say only they can baptize. They own the copyright to the Book of Mormon and will not let others print it...

[_jo1952]

Jo, I think you miss the point for converts to Christian churches. Everything a person needs for salvation is represented in the person of Jesus. Christians are not saved by adhering to denominational practices and interpretations. Salvation is in and through only Jesus...a free gift from God through his Son given by grace through the faith manifested by the believer. Churches don't save people and nor do their particular beliefs and practices...only Jesus saves. Christ's church provides the communion of fellow believers to grow in that saving grace.

If this were the case, then once the Apostles had converted people, the Apostles would not have needed to teach the members anything additional. They could have continued doing only proselyting and adding new members. After all, according to your belief, once they had accepted Jesus, they were saved.

So, why do you think the Apostles kept insisting on teaching those who had already been converted? And why did the Apostles find it necessary to correct any of the members? Maybe the Apostles didn't understand how the program worked; though you do.

Blessings,

jo

[_Drifting]

Jo, I think you miss the point for converts to Christian churches. Everything a person needs for salvation is represented in the person of Jesus. Christians are not saved by adhering to denominational practices and interpretations. Salvation is in and through only Jesus...a free gift from God through his Son given by grace through the faith manifested by the believer. Churches don't save people and nor do their particular beliefs and practices...only Jesus saves. Christ's church provides the communion of fellow believers to grow in that saving grace.

Albion,

To be saved—or to gain salvation—means to be saved from physical and spiritual death. Because of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected and saved from physical death. People may also be saved from individual spiritual death through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, by their faith in Him, by living in obedience to the laws and ordinances of His gospel, and by serving Him.

To be exalted—or to gain exaltation—refers to the highest state of happiness and glory in the celestial realm. These blessings can come to us after we leave this frail and mortal existence. The time to prepare for our eventual salvation and exaltation is now. Russel M. Nelson

[_Albion]

I know what Mormonism teaches, Drifting, and I know that Mormons and Christians often use the same word but mean different things. The Mormon definition of salvation is quite different from the Biblical Christian definition. Christian salvation is not a partial salvation...a resurrection only...it is a full salvation which includes resurrection and full joy with the Father in all that he has. Salvation is fully complete in Jesus...there are no add ons, no hoops and hurdles to overcome to earn something more. There is nothing anyone can do to make God love them more because love is not something God does, or something he doles out as a reward...it is what he is and the fullness of that love is manifest in saving grace through Jesus Christ.

[_LittleNipper]

Jo, I think you miss the point for converts to Christian churches. Everything a person needs for salvation is represented in the person of Jesus. Christians are not saved by adhering to denominational practices and interpretations. Salvation is in and through only Jesus...a free gift from God through his Son given by grace through the faith manifested by the believer. Churches don't save people and nor do their particular beliefs and practices...only Jesus saves. Christ's church provides the communion of fellow believers to grow in that saving grace.

If this were the case, then once the Apostles had converted people, the Apostles would not have needed to teach the members anything additional. They could have continued doing only proselyting and adding new members. After all, according to your belief, once they had accepted Jesus, they were saved.

So, why do you think the Apostles kept insisting on teaching those who had already been converted? And why did the Apostles find it necessary to correct any of the members? Maybe the Apostles didn't understand how the program worked; though you do.

Blessings,

jo

The Apostles were relating the whole history of the Word --- the Bible. Many of the converts were not even Jewish and so they had only pagan stories and needed "Old Testament" lessons. The Jewish converts had issues with legalism which needed to be understood correctly and fully.

[_jo1952]

The Apostles were relating the whole history of the Word --- the Bible. Many of the converts were not even Jewish and so they had only pagan stories and needed "Old Testament" lessons. The Jewish converts had issues with legalism which needed to be understood correctly and fully.

Hi LittleNipper!

Indeed! In fact, the Apostles also exhorted that the Saints diligently keep the commandments, and to add to their faith the many qualities which God required of them. Also, even though Jesus taught us that it would be the Holy Spirit who will lead us to all Truth, this does not happen all at once. We need to progress to the point where we HAVE received all Truth. If the Holy Spirit, upon making witness to someone who has exercised faith in Christ, has also thusly revealed all Truth to the convert, I would offer that the lessons being taught by the Apostles would not have been necessary. Albion's stance appears to be that once you have accepted Jesus, then you are saved without needing to know (or do??) anything else.

Blessings,

jo

[_LittleNipper]

The Apostles were relating the whole history of the Word --- the Bible. Many of the converts were not even Jewish and so they had only pagan stories and needed "Old Testament" lessons. The Jewish converts had issues with legalism which needed to be understood correctly and fully.

Hi LittleNipper!

Indeed! In fact, the Apostles also exhorted that the Saints diligently keep the commandments, and to add to their faith the many qualities which God required of them. Also, even though Jesus taught us that it would be the Holy Spirit who will lead us to all Truth, this does not happen all at once. We need to progress to the point where we HAVE received all Truth. If the Holy Spirit, upon making witness to someone who has exercised faith in Christ, has also thusly revealed all Truth to the convert, I would offer that the lessons being taught by the Apostles would not have been necessary. Albion's stance appears to be that once you have accepted Jesus, then you are saved without needing to know (or do??) anything else.

Blessings,

jo

How can one preach what one doesn't fully understand? To become a good witness one must get rooted the Bible and be able to explain it when questions are asked. I may not understand everything; however, over time the Holy Spirit has revealed things to me and has placed teachers in the my life's journey. I was saved at a young age and over time God increased my understanding as I looked in the Bible to answer questions my friends asked and enemies hurled at me. I have had upsets and trials but every time God has brought me back to His Word and His Word only. It is true and I fully believe it.

[_Themis]

I may not understand everything; however, over time the Holy Spirit has revealed things to me and has placed teachers in the my life's journey.

Is it through what you think is the holy spirit that you believe the Bible is God's word?

[_LittleNipper]

I may not understand everything; however, over time the Holy Spirit has revealed things to me and has placed teachers in the my life's journey.

Is it through what you think is the holy spirit that you believe the Bible is God's word?

The Holy Spirit uplifts God's Word. He doesn't confuse it for the believer. He enlightens and promotes Christ.