No three degrees of Glory in 1 Cor 15

[_Albion]

P.S. Satan does indeed believe there is a God....he does not, however, place his trust in him preferring to trust in his own abilities.

[_Albion]

You may characterize the video any way you wish but it is a simple and clear demonstration of salvation by grace alone....nothing else.

[_subgenius]

Well, subgenious, now you call me a liar.

i never called you a liar, i simply stated that it was "likely" the story was fabricated as a means to illustrate the obvious fallacy it promoted (LINK HERE)

I ask again, why do Mormons make things so personal by insulting those they debate with? The "anecdote" I quoted most assuredly happened in my life and I used it only as an indication of something which I see as a problem within Mormonism...that Mormonism gives mostly lip service to the idea of Jesus. His name might be in the title of the Mormon Church...his name might be mentioned at the end of prayers...and he might have a place in the plan of progression, but from an outside perspective I don't see him being talked about or worshiped very much in the average meeting.

interesting, because in the "average" meeting and classes that follow He is mentioned quite often. So my experience is different than yours, one must be more credible than the other, right? LINK HERE

That might be a subjective opinion but it is mine and since I have not been inside a Mormon building for some time perhaps it has been engineered to change in the face of more up to to date Mormon apologetics. An interesting exercise might be to count how many times his name is mentioned over the course of two or three sacrament meetings.

why count? is there a critical mass for you that would be "approved"? 10 times? 15 times? 37 times?
I can go into the local mega-baptist-church (in shorts, bikini top, and flip-flops) and lose count of how many times "Jesus" is shouted out, but those shouts are mostly in vain and without substance......so.....

In answer to your question...yes, most assuredly assured...not because of anything I can boast in but only because of him who has fully paid the price of my sin. It is an assurance that allows me to learn and to deepen my relationship with him without the fear of damnation hanging over me. The truth that makes one free.

How are assured? what makes you, in particular, so convinced as to exclaim "assured"...sure Christ made a sacrifice for everyone...but everyone does not receive it, do they?
So, why are you "getting it" while others do not?

Glad to see that you are quoting a Christian like Lewis, someone who also had the assurance of salvation. While there is merit in his words I have little doubt where his faith and trust was placed.

yes, why bother taking Lewis at his own words...surely he meant to say something altogether different.
Nice reasoning there, no wonder the Nicene Creed sits well with you.

[_subgenius]

You may characterize the video any way you wish but it is a simple and clear demonstration of salvation by grace alone....nothing else.

it is anything but that...for we are all "a child of God"
the video is pandering and promotes false teachings.

show me Grace without repentance and without baptism

[_Albion]

You are expecting a simple video which focuses only on the simple teaching of trust in Jesus over works to show all that leads up to that point. Today is the first time I have seen it but it is clearly only making one simple point and it does it well from the Christian perspective.

[_Albion]

Since I told you it was a real, personal story and you said it was "fabricated"...you called me a liar.

[_SteelHead]

Tobin, who is the last Mormon prophet that you recognize as legitimate?

Martin Luther King Jr.

Well, ok, he was a prophet, just not Mormon.

I don't feel any of the prophets since Joseph Smith have been particularly inspired. I view them merely as caretakers of the church. I think a true prophet is a calling from God alone and these men are merely ecclesiastical leaders.

So my providing dozens of quotes from the Mormon prophets since Joseph Smith about god being the literal father of our spirits would be moot.......

[Guest]

You may characterize the video any way you wish but it is a simple and clear demonstration of salvation by grace alone....nothing else.

it is anything but that...for we are all "a child of God"
the video is pandering and promotes false teachings.

show me Grace without repentance and without baptism

We are not all children of God. Only those who are called and believe are Children of God the rest are of their father the devil.


New International Version (©1984)
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--

New Living Translation (©2007)
But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God.

English Standard Version (©2001)
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

International Standard Version (©2008)
However, to all who received him, those believing in his name, he gave authority to become God's children,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
But those that received him, to them he gave authority to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his Name,

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
However, he gave the right to become God's children to everyone who believed in him.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the children of God, even to them that believe on his name:

American King James Version
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

American Standard Version
But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Douay-Rheims Bible
But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name.

Darby Bible Translation
but as many as received him, to them gave he the right to be children of God, to those that believe on his name;

English Revised Version
But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Webster's Bible Translation
But as many as received him, to them he gave power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Weymouth New Testament
But all who have received Him, to them--that is, to those who trust in His name--He has given the privilege of becoming children of God;

World English Bible
But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children, to those who believe in his name:

Young's Literal Translation
but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God -- to those believing in his name,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New International Version (©1984)
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

New Living Translation (©2007)
For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies.

English Standard Version (©2001)
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

International Standard Version (©2008)
You belong to your father the devil, and you want to carry out the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and has never stood for truth, since there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie he speaks in character, because he is a liar and the father of lies.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
“You are from your father The Devil, and the desire of your father you are willing to do; from the beginning he has been murdering men and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him; whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from what is his, because he is of falsehood and is also its father.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
You come from your father, the devil, and you desire to do what your father wants you to do. The devil was a murderer from the beginning. He has never been truthful. He doesn't know what the truth is. Whenever he tells a lie, he's doing what comes naturally to him. He's a liar and the father of lies.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

American King James Version
You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and stayed not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

American Standard Version
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.

Douay-Rheims Bible
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.

Darby Bible Translation
Ye are of the devil, as your father, and ye desire to do the lusts of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks falsehood, he speaks of what is his own; for he is a liar and its father:

English Revised Version
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and stood not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.

Webster's Bible Translation
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do: he was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Weymouth New Testament
The father whose sons you are is the Devil; and you desire to do what gives him pleasure. *He* was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand firm in the truth--for there is no truth in him. Whenever he utters his lie, he utters it out of his own store; for he is a liar, and the father of lies.

World English Bible
You are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and doesn't stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks on his own; for he is a liar, and its father.

Young's Literal Translation
'Ye are of a father -- the devil, and the desires of your father ye will to do; he was a man-slayer from the beginning, and in the truth he hath not stood, because there is no truth in him; when one may speak the falsehood, of his own he speaketh, because he is a liar -- also his father.

[_Tobin]

So my providing dozens of quotes from the Mormon prophets since Joseph Smith about god being the literal father of our spirits would be moot.......

Again, I'm not arguing that it has not been taught by the Church or various Mormons/Mormon leaders. I'm stating they are mistaken and what the reasons are for that. There are many false doctrines taught in the Church that when you closely examine them are obviously inconsistent with the rest of the gospel. Here are just a few that I have a problem with:

1) Polygamy should be practiced by the Church.
Problem: It's a sin. The Church was punished for it and almost destroyed by it.

2) All heads of the Mormon Church are prophets, seers, and revelators and are auto-magically given those callings by God by receiving the title.
Problem: Unless one is personally called by God to do such things, you are none of those things.

3) Litte children that die before the age of accountability (and others that don't have the mental capacity) are auto-magically exalted and go to the CK.
Problem: You need be married to go to the highest level of the CK. We perform none of those things for these individuals in the temple. It is inconsistent with the requirements that the rest of us face in order to go to the CK and so it must be false.

4) Blacks were cursed from the Priesthood by God and we don't know why he did it or removed the curse.
Problem: Racist garbage introduced by Brigham Young.

5) Men will become God or gods.
Problem: Man is incapable of being God or gods. The only being who saves us is God himself. Jesus Christ suffered for our sins and none of us can (or ever will) be able to do that.

6) Feelings can establish truth about the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, and Mormonism.
Problem: Feelings can't be trusted. We need a credible witness of God to establish the truth and know it isn't a hoax/fraud.

and there are many more...

[_subgenius]

We are not all children of God. Only those who are called and believe are Children of God the rest are of their father the devil.

New International Version (©1984)
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--

<insert lesson on brevity here>
.

1 John 5:1 "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him."
1 John 4:7 "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God."
1 John 5:18 "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."
(this seems to knock out the guy in the video with all the red papers)

seems like being a "child of God" is a good thing, and necessary, no doubt.....but not sure it "weighs in" as the promotional video depicts.

still waiting on this answer
show me Grace without repentance and without baptism...