Albion wrote:At the risk of being obtuse...why would they pray to Jesus because he is with them? A simple explanation please. If he was with them, wouldn't a simple conversation do the trick? Just asking.
If Jesus was in front of me, and teaching me, I would be on my knees in humility and in tears of joy, while words of praise and worship and adoration falling from my lips could not be stemmed. At that time, I certainly wouldn't NOT tell Jesus how much I love and adore Him, and appreciate all that He has done. So I wouldn't pray to Father to give Jesus the message. I would give Jesus the message personally.
However, since Jesus is NOT personnally in front of me at this moment, my prayers are directed to Father - just like Jesus taught us to do. I will also sing praises to Jesus because He IS my savior. I realize that singing is a form of prayer; but it is not the same thing as a formalized prayer.
Ultimately, I think Father is pleased with whether we are praying to Him directly; or if we are praying to Jesus. However, since Jesus DID give us the proper method of prayer, I try to do so....even though, at times, I am feeling so much joy and my cup runneth over, that I WILL speak to Jesus as well as to Father.
Albion wrote:At the risk of being obtuse...why would they pray to Jesus because he is with them? A simple explanation please. If he was with them, wouldn't a simple conversation do the trick? Just asking.
If Jesus was in front of me, and teaching me, I would be on my knees in humility and in tears of joy, while words of praise and worship and adoration falling from my lips could not be stemmed.
I'd be asking Him to explain why allowing child abuse and starvation were 'part of the plan'. (After I had verified it actually was Jesus by making Him perform the sacred handshakes obviously).
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
gdemetz wrote:Mittens, you may believe whatever you choose to believe! You can even believe Judas, or the apostle Paul Dunn who lied many times, or you can believe other prophets and apostles who have in the past erred by making incorrect statements! It's all up to you! However, what I have told you is the true Mormon Doctrine! Also, what I have told you about the false teaching of the trinity is also true! Just check out these following statements from various so-called Christian faiths and see for yourself if they don't come up with the same BS about three Gods in one being just as Wikipedia has stated!!!
Catholic: "The MYSTERY {Babylon} of the most holy trinity is the central MYSTERY {Babylon} of the Christian faith and of Christian life. God alone {and Mittens} can make it known unto us by revealing Himself {ONE BEING} as the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit."
Southern Baptist Convention: "The eternal triune God REVEALS HIMSELF TO US AS FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT, WITH DISTINCT PERSONAL ATTRIBUTES, BUT WITHOUT DIVISION OF NATURE ESSENCE OR BEING" {IN OTHER WORDS, ONE BEING!}.
I go to a Baptist Church so I should know their Theology
Justice = Getting what you deserve Mercy = Not getting what you deserve Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
Jo, I have no argument with your last post. It is essentially just that which prompted my question. Validity of the Book of Mormon aside it just seems odd to me, in this quote, to pray to Jesus when he is there physically with them. It is a curious passage, I think.
Mittens wrote: I go to a Baptist Church so I should know their Theology
Since you are not a leader in the Baptist Church, I think GD would prefer not to accept your interpretation of Baptist Theology as you are not an authority on the subject.
Albion wrote:Jo, I have no argument with your last post. It is essentially just that which prompted my question. Validity of the Book of Mormon aside it just seems odd to me, in this quote, to pray to Jesus when he is there physically with them. It is a curious passage, I think.
Albion,
I think Jesus' words have at least a two-fold purpose. One is that Jesus has always given Glory to the Father. Even though Father is very aware of what is happening between Christ and the Nephites, Christ feels the need to let Father know that He is not purposely seeking for the Nephites to pray to Him instead of Father. The other purpose would be to show us that He is not contradicting the teaching of praying to Father; as this a unique situation for the Nephites to actually have Christ in their presence. I think it would have been inappropriate for Christ to rebuke the Nephites for praying to Him instead of Father under those circumstances. If He had rebuked them, it seems to me that this would have been a very unkind, unfair, and unloving thing for Him to do. He made sure that He privately went to Father to talk to Father about this, because it is still Christ's desire to do Father's will.
That's as good an answer as any in explaining Jesus's motivation if this were a real incident but it doesn't really answer why they would need to approach Jesus through the process of prayer when he is right there with them. If Jesus were before me, after I got over all the natural human reactions, I would, if I could find my tongue, talk to him straight up and wouldn't need to resort to prayer. I guess there's no real answer as to what the author had in mind.
And yet, Jo, gdemetz, expects those of us who disagree to accept that he is an authority on Mormonism. I have attended Baptist churches and cannot recall ever hearing a specific sermon on the subject of the Trinity. I have also been involved in private Bible studies that have included Baptist participants (part of the fellowship that Christians from different denominations can have) and have no doubt that what has been expressed with regard to the Trinity is firmly believed by those participants.
Albion wrote:And yet, Jo, gdemetz, expects those of us who disagree to accept that he is an authority on Mormonism. I have attended Baptist churches and cannot recall ever hearing a specific sermon on the subject of the Trinity. I have also been involved in private Bible studies that have included Baptist participants (part of the fellowship that Christians from different denominations can have) and have no doubt that what has been expressed with regard to the Trinity is firmly believed by those participants.
Hi Albion,
I responded to her quote in the manner that I did, because she is the one who first said this to GD:
I'll take a general authority's opinion over yours anyday about Mormonism
Then she said this:
Lets see gdemetz, not probably a general authority in Mormonism, but gives his opinion over a general authority . I wonder who knows Mormonism better.
And finally, she said this:
I go to a Baptist Church so I should know their Theology
I am just exposing her inability to apply the same standard to her own comments which she applies to GD's comments. Thus, I am exposing the irony, and dishonesty she uses. She does NOT understand LDS beliefs. She doesn't even understand her own beliefs, or what her beliefs look like. But she is happy to claim authoritative knowledge and understanding of both the LDS Church, and of her own church.
So what is she even doing here? She certainly is not seeking truth. As Subgenius has already mentioned, and I have agreed, she is trolling.
Mormons do not understand the Trinity, The difference between the Creedal Evangelican and Mormonism is we believe what Joseph Smith Jr taught before he became a polythiest
2 Nephi 31: 21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.
Alma 11: 44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.
Mormon 7: 7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.
The Testimony of Three Witnesses And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen. Oliver Cowdery David Whitmer Martin Harris
Doctrine and Covenants 20 : 28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.
Then Joseph Smith Jr became a Polythiest and taught this
Joseph Smith said the Trinity is three gods. "I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370)
So Creedal Evangelics say three separate and Distinct persons represent the One God while Mormons say three distinct personages and three Gods, this is the most precise and accurate definition I can give. Is even more accurate than Rush Limbaugh who is 99.8 % accurate
Justice = Getting what you deserve Mercy = Not getting what you deserve Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
