Why didn't God save this man...?

[_subgenius]

I believe that God could have intervened: however, we do nor see the big picture. Many could come to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ (including those connected with the individual who caused the accident). We had a young man killed at our Bible Church. His wife was about to have their first baby. However, many were moved at the memorial service and funeral. So, who is to say the accident counted for nothing. We do fully believe this man is in heaven. He was a professed Christian and a strong leader. He really loved the Lord.

This is why I don't particularly like your version of God.
We supposedly come to earth to make decisions and to have agency yet God interferes in ways that lead to grief and suffering, like a cat toying with a mouse. Could you do that to your children?

you have yet to prove that God "interferes" as you are proposing.
Again, this is your fundamental flaw in reasoning...however, the "unmoved mover" was a popular view of God back when America was kicking someone's butt back across the pond...about 200+ years ago

[_Drifting]

you have yet to prove that God "interferes" as you are proposing.

What's the point in worshipping and asking for help in prayers from a God who doesn't interfere?

[_LittleNipper]

I believe that God could have intervened: however, we do not see the big picture. Many could come to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ (including those connected with the individual who caused the accident). We had a young man killed at our Bible Church. His wife was about to have their first baby. However, many were moved at the memorial service and funeral. So, who is to say the accident counted for nothing. We do fully believe this man is in heaven. He was a professed Christian and a strong leader. He really loved the Lord.

This is why I don't particularly like your version of God.
We supposedly come to earth to make decisions and to have agency yet God interferes in ways that lead to grief and suffering, like a cat toying with a mouse. Could you do that to your children?

You cannot have it both ways. God allows some things to happen because it suits He purpose. God intervenes and prevents some things because it suits His purpose. God works to save as many souls as He wishes. It is man who ignores the warnings. He doesn't toy with us, I believe we often toy with Him --- see how far we can push the buttons --- kind of like a half spoiled child. And actually, I am far less forgiving than God is --- you would not like me in God's place. I would have destroyed the earth when Adam bit the apple.

[Guest]

I believe that God could have intervened: however, we do nor see the big picture. Many could come to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ (including those connected with the individual who caused the accident). We had a young man killed at our Bible Church. His wife was about to have their first baby. However, many were moved at the memorial service and funeral. So, who is to say the accident counted for nothing. We do fully believe this man is in heaven. He was a professed Christian and a strong leader. He really loved the Lord.

you have yet to prove that God "interferes" as you are proposing.
Again, this is your fundamental flaw in reasoning...however, the "unmoved mover" was a popular view of God back when America was kicking someone's butt back across the pond...about 200+ years ago

I do not believe in luck. I believe everything happens for a reason. That said, there are many people alive today because of circumstances beyond their control which prevented them from being in the right place at the wrong time. I personally know an individual who should have been in an office on the upper floor of one of the twin towers and circumstances worked together to prevent this individual from being there on that day. The office was destroyed when the plane went through it. I was not where I should have been when straight winds caused a massive Locust tree to fall right where my car was parked moments earlier. Something told me to move out of the way. Perhaps God wanted me to father my child or perhaps witness here on this forum ---who knows? Angels grabbed Lot by the arms and dragged him out of Sodom. INTERVENTION

[_Natsunekko]

When I think about God and prayer-answering, I see a lot of analogies with my own children. There are things that happen to them--that I allow to happen--that they think are THE END OF THE WORLD, but are actually either not really a big deal or are an experience that they need to have.

One of the things that I think God really just doesn't care that much about is death. Death is a huge deal to us. Losing someone to death is often a huge horrible ordeal. For God, though, it's probably not even a bad thing, much less a huge ordeal. I think this for a couple reasons. Firstly, to God, death is how people leave this world and go rejoin him. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. Secondly, in the eternal scheme of things, a lifetime is really not a very long time. God has only "taken away" (or allowed to be taken) the dying person for a few decades, and then we'll be reunited. Again, with the my-kids-analogy, it's not unlike the kid who goes into hysterics when I go out and they're left with a babysitter. As mom, I feel sorry for my child's sadness, but I know that I'll be home again soon, so I don't really intervene to "rescue" my child.

For the record, I also don't believe that God finds lost car keys. When I pray, it is usually for comfort or a clear mind, not for the solution to my problem.

[_Drifting]

When I think about God and prayer-answering, I see a lot of analogies with my own children. There are things that happen to them--that I allow to happen--that they think are THE END OF THE WORLD, but are actually either not really a big deal or are an experience that they need to have.

One of the things that I think God really just doesn't care that much about is death. Death is a huge deal to us. Losing someone to death is often a huge horrible ordeal. For God, though, it's probably not even a bad thing, much less a huge ordeal. I think this for a couple reasons. Firstly, to God, death is how people leave this world and go rejoin him. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. Secondly, in the eternal scheme of things, a lifetime is really not a very long time. God has only "taken away" (or allowed to be taken) the dying person for a few decades, and then we'll be reunited. Again, with the my-kids-analogy, it's not unlike the kid who goes into hysterics when I go out and they're left with a babysitter. As mom, I feel sorry for my child's sadness, but I know that I'll be home again soon, so I don't really intervene to "rescue" my child.

For the record, I also don't believe that God finds lost car keys. When I pray, it is usually for comfort or a clear mind, not for the solution to my problem.

Can you think of an analogy with your kids to go with God allowing children to starve and be abused?

[_Natsunekko]

That veers into the "why does God allow horrible things to happen?" which is not the same as "why didn't God save this man?"

The Sunday-school answer is that free agency allows the abuser to choose to abuse the child. The warlord is allowed to choose to murder all of the farmers, so there isn't any food for the children, so they starve. If abusers and warlords aren't allowed to choose to make people suffer, than free agency doesn't really exist.

This doesn't answer, however, why God allows non-sentient causes of suffering, like disease and natural disaster. Again, the Sunday-school answer is that suffering allows a person (or the people around that person) to grow. It's hard to demonstrate compassion unless there are people around to be compassionate to. And it's hard to demonstrate tenacity if nothing is ever difficult.

It seems to me that the options are that either God doesn't really care that much (which is the Sunday school answer: God thinks that the outcome is more important than the suffering--starving and abuse just aren't a big deal to God, in the eternal scheme of things). Or God is unable to stop suffering. Or there is no God. I'm guessing that you believe it's the latter?

[_Drifting]

That veers into the "why does God allow horrible things to happen?" which is not the same as "why didn't God save this man?"

The Sunday-school answer is that free agency allows the abuser to choose to abuse the child. The warlord is allowed to choose to murder all of the farmers, so there isn't any food for the children, so they starve. If abusers and warlords aren't allowed to choose to make people suffer, than free agency doesn't really exist.

This doesn't answer, however, why God allows non-sentient causes of suffering, like disease and natural disaster. Again, the Sunday-school answer is that suffering allows a person (or the people around that person) to grow. It's hard to demonstrate compassion unless there are people around to be compassionate to. And it's hard to demonstrate tenacity if nothing is ever difficult.

It seems to me that the options are that either God doesn't really care that much (which is the Sunday school answer: God thinks that the outcome is more important than the suffering--starving and abuse just aren't a big deal to God, in the eternal scheme of things). Or God is unable to stop suffering. Or there is no God. I'm guessing that you believe it's the latter?

You would guess wrong.
But He is not doing a good job of convincing people otherwise.

[_subgenius]

"suffering" and "horrible" are relative positions.
If you allow your child to "suffer" such "horrible" circumstances like grounding them from the internet. or not allowing them to go to a party, they truly believe it is "horrible", but your perspective is quite different.
For you to assume any position for God's perspective on the matter of child starvation is arrogant, futile, and unnecessary. Though, I suspect God is concerned with your own position on that matter.

[_Natsunekko]

What is your response to the question, then? :)