Did we have a pre-premortal existence?

[_gdemetz]

Of course, they don't use that as an excuse, Albion, since that would look very bad, but nevertheless that is their false belief!

[_gdemetz]

Of course, they don't use that as an excuse, Albion, since that would look very bad, but nevertheless that is their false belief, and it is false since the scriptures clearly teach that if one sins after having a knowledge of the truth, then their remaineth no more sacrifice for that!

[_jo1952]

Best rendetion of "I Know That My Redeemer Lives" from my U-Tube account, I have two but this is the best

http://youtu.be/5fJ20XIa9Cw


Martina McBride does "O Holy Night' the best

Hi Mittens,

Thank you for sharing that!!

This version of "O Holy Night" is sung by a seven year old! Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... 2FSsk&NR=1

I LOVE Martina McBride!! She can really belt out a song!

I also love versions by Celine Dion, Carrie Underwood, John Berry, and Josh Groban, and more. So many wonderful singers! We are blessed!!

Blessings,

jo

[_jo1952]

I go to a Baptist Church and last sermon was on these verses
Matt 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

could read for Mormon

Matt 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not baptised for the dead, not sipped coffee or tea, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

I'd say we our taught our works mean little to salvation, but our for showing our Faith.


http://youtu.be/ADDF-bz6Zys

Hello Mittens:

I am pressed to warn you of the following verse which comes from the very same chapter.

Matthew 7:2

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And, the following which also come from the same chapter:

Matthew 7:3-5 (KJV)

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Peace,

jo

[_Mittens]

Luke 18
9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee [Mormon] and the other a tax collector[Christian]. 11 The Pharisee [Mormon] stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector[Christian] . 12 I... fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector[Christian], standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”


Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists, Pharisees and Judaism religions work their way to God.

Romans 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Pastors sermon was on these verses in Romans, verses 3-4 means that when we work at a job we are rewarded with a pay check, but God doesn’t want our indebtness but our faith. Verse 4: That’s why he justifieth the ungodly or wicked, not the religions trying to work their way to God.

[_jo1952]

Luke 18
9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee [Mormon] and the other a tax collector[Christian]. 11 The Pharisee [Mormon] stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector[Christian] . 12 I... fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector[Christian], standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”


Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists, Pharisees and Judaism religions work their way to God.

Romans 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Pastors sermon was on these verses in Romans, verses 3-4 means that when we work at a job we are rewarded with a pay check, but God doesn’t want our indebtness but our faith. Verse 4: That’s why he justifieth the ungodly or wicked, not the religions trying to work their way to God.

I see that you are now judging the whole world who does not agree with you. So, who is being the boastful one?

Your words pretty much speak for you. We should be spreading love; not hate.

Blessings,

jo

[_Franktalk]

Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists, Pharisees and Judaism religions work their way to God.

Romans 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Pastors sermon was on these verses in Romans, verses 3-4 means that when we work at a job we are rewarded with a pay check, but God doesn’t want our indebtness but our faith. Verse 4: That’s why he justifieth the ungodly or wicked, not the religions trying to work their way to God.

So just what is being said in Romans?

First of all there are two men. The natural man of flesh and then the spiritual man. There is nothing in the eyes of God that the natural man can do that is pleasing to God. This is clear in many scriptures. The things which originate in the heart or soul which manifest in outward ways is pleasing to God. So now let us read Romans.

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Here we see comments bounded by "the flesh" so the works of the flesh mean nothing to God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Now scripture shifts to talking about faith. Abraham "believed God" when he was told that his son would be the father of many nations. So even the commandment to kill his son placed the burden on God to keep his promise about his son. Abraham knew that God would just have to bring his son back from the dead to satisfy His promise. So Abraham's work of bringing his son to an altar was in faith and counted to righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

These two verses compare the flesh against faith. It is a repeat of what was just described by verses 1 through 3. Let us take the first verse.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Compare this with verse 2.

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Now we can see what is going on. If Abraham did things so that God owed him then God in Abraham's eyes would build a debt that God owed Abraham and Abraham's glory would build. But no glory would be for God just Abraham. These are works in the flesh.

Now we can see what is meant in verse 4.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Those works done in the flesh are not done by grace or faith in God. They are motivated by pride in believing that we can make God owe us.

Now verse 5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

He who works not in the flesh but instead works by faith gives glory to God. These people are counted for righteousness. The work of Abraham in bringing his son to an altar was due to faith in God. Another could bring their son to an altar but if in their heart the act or work was to bring glory to them self then they are not righteous. The act is the same for both people but one is counted for righteousness and the other is not.

Remember this:

Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

These verses in Romans must agree with the rest of scripture. The way I have laid them out they do. I am not sure that what you see fits with the rest of scripture.

The misinterpretation of these verses has led many to stumble. Who was it that said:

Mat 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Who also said:

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Since Christ did many mighty works I would have to say that we are to work as well. If we do those works in faith then we are counted as righteous. If we do those works so we obtain glory then we do those things in pride and they are nothing to God.

[Guest]

So just what is being said in Romans?

First of all there are two men. The natural man of flesh and then the spiritual man. There is nothing in the eyes of God that the natural man can do that is pleasing to God. This is clear in many scriptures. The things which originate in the heart or soul which manifest in outward ways is pleasing to God. So now let us read Romans.

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Here we see comments bounded by "the flesh" so the works of the flesh mean nothing to God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Now scripture shifts to talking about faith. Abraham "believed God" when he was told that his son would be the father of many nations. So even the commandment to kill his son placed the burden on God to keep his promise about his son. Abraham knew that God would just have to bring his son back from the dead to satisfy His promise. So Abraham's work of bringing his son to an altar was in faith and counted to righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

These two verses compare the flesh against faith. It is a repeat of what was just described by verses 1 through 3. Let us take the first verse.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Compare this with verse 2.

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Now we can see what is going on. If Abraham did things so that God owed him then God in Abraham's eyes would build a debt that God owed Abraham and Abraham's glory would build. But no glory would be for God just Abraham. These are works in the flesh.

Now we can see what is meant in verse 4.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Those works done in the flesh are not done by grace or faith in God. They are motivated by pride in believing that we can make God owe us.

Now verse 5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

He who works not in the flesh but instead works by faith gives glory to God. These people are counted for righteousness. The work of Abraham in bringing his son to an altar was due to faith in God. Another could bring their son to an altar but if in their heart the act or work was to bring glory to them self then they are not righteous. The act is the same for both people but one is counted for righteousness and the other is not.

Remember this:

Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

These verses in Romans must agree with the rest of scripture. The way I have laid them out they do. I am not sure that what you see fits with the rest of scripture.

The misinterpretation of these verses has led many to stumble. Who was it that said:

Mat 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Who also said:

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Since Christ did many mighty works I would have to say that we are to work as well. If we do those works in faith then we are counted as righteous. If we do those works so we obtain glory then we do those things in pride and they are nothing to God.

Excellent, Frank!

This also helps explain the teachings concerning those who do not live under the Law. The reason their works will be counted for righteousness toward them is because they are also not seeking personal glory when performing good works. They are doing them for pure reasons; i.e., they see someone in need, and they serve them because of that need, and not because they are looking for recognition for having done something good. OTOH, if someone who is not under the Law does good works for the purpose of seeking recognition for those works, then those works will be dead; they will not be counted as righteousness.

Blessings,

jo

[_Mittens]

In a nut shell this video expains Grace and Works and the Gospel "Good News"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrLzYw6ULYw

[_Franktalk]

Mittens,

To explain a simple truth you turn to man. How sad. Jesus is the way and the light. But not Jesus the idea. The Jesus I refer to is alive and I talk to Him all of the time. He guides my life. That is why I don't trust man. A measure of just how much you love Christ is how much you love your fellow man. A further measure is how much you judge others.