Is Harry Reid Now Moving Toward Official Church Discipline?

[_palerobber]

Have you not been in tune with our current economy?  Do you have any idea how many articles and discussions there has been about all the capital sitting on the sideline and not being invested because of current White House Admin policies uncertainties?

which "policies uncertainties" are you referring to? please be specific, because otherwise it will sound like you're just regurgitating rightwing talking points.

I have a lot of capital.  More than I will ever need for the rest of my life for personal consumption.  I would love to put more of my capital to work and create jobs and commerce.  But like so many, can't get motivated by the direction of our current political administration.

i've heard of a lot of conservatives over the last couple of years claim that they were "going Galt" (i.e. sabotaging the US economy) but when they actually get down to details about what exactly they're withholding it always turns out to be quite pathetic. i am wondering if you can buck that trend. please tell us more details -- are you buying fewer hookers or what?

[_Kishkumen]

which "policies uncertainties" are you referring to? please be specific, because otherwise it will sound like you're just regurgitating rightwing talking points.

Yup.

I have a lot of capital.  More than I will ever need for the rest of my life for personal consumption.  I would love to put more of my capital to work and create jobs and commerce.  But like so many, can't get motivated by the direction of our current political administration.

Basically, our hero is confessing that he's a weak-kneed wimp. He needs other men of more mettle to motivate him. He would "love to" create jobs (self-deceit), but he'll just have to sit back and valiantly enjoy his personal consumption, since the right person is not in the White House motivating him to create jobs (lie) by allowing him to keep more of his money (for his personal consumption).

[_DrW]

I have a lot of capital.  More than I will ever need for the rest of my life for personal consumption.  I would love to put more of my capital to work and create jobs and commerce.  But like so many, can't get motivated by the direction of our current political administration.

My colleagues and I also have (control of) a lot of capital. We chose to use some of it to try to benefit those in other countries (where religious belief severely blunts the opportunities for many). We decided to work with those who wanted to "build where they stood", and could use a better education, and some good American technology to do so. And it worked (for everybody). And (would you believe it), we are now creating real jobs both here and in the US with overseas capital.

Here is the kicker: Obama policies have made this all possible. Under Romney's stated policies (who knows what he would really do if elected), it is likely that we would either scale back (or shut down) US operations and move overseas permanently, or pack up, head home, and go back to playing the zero sum game just like we were under the last Republican administration.

If your goal is simply capital preservation, then Romney might be your man. But if you are into using capital to create jobs in the working and middle classes, cleaning up the environment, giving all an opportunity for a better life (rather than just those with wealth to preserve) and using technology in beneficial ways, then Romney is (or should be) your worst nightmare.

Something to think about: The area in which we are working is 95% Muslim. It has an illiteracy rate above 30%. Yet the government in the country as a whole has the good sense to to provide universal health care.

Are conservative Republicans really less clued in than the government of a country where the population ins some regions major regions are 30% illiterate?.

[_Kevin Graham]

Kevin has misunderstood the concept of "capital," apparently believing that this term implies simply "money."

Apparently, Doofus has yet to learn basic comprehension. It boggles the mind how anyone could read my short post and then arrive to the conclusion that I said capital refers strictly to "money." Nowhere did I even mention "money" in my post. In fact, I specified that wealth/capital in my proposed scenario, was to be found in natural resources found on the island. So where the hell does Doofus get "money" from? He just pulls it out of his arse as usual.

And yes, it is true that I believe, as do most Economists, that Supply-Side economics was an abject failure, and I also agree with most business owners that the biggest burden they face is lack of consumer demand, not oppresive government regulations as Doofus keeps going on about. I have facts and evidence on my side while Doofus is still trying to justify Supply-Side economics. But we have to keep in mind we're talking about someone who still thinks there is no evidence against the Book of Abraham or the LDS Church. Everyone who disrupts his worldview regarding his two favorite religions, is either a Satanic anti-Mormon and/or "leftist" from hell. Doofus cannot debate the points on their own merits because he is on the side of falsehood. Which is why he is always running away from these discussions as Krose, Medotcom, Analytics, EAllusion and I pummel him with refutations in the off-topic forum. It takes a true moron to sit there and insist increased production is going to save an economy when consumers have no money to spend. Again, supply-side theory has been shattered by recent history, as it was in full swing when our economy damn near collapsed.

Joey,

In your example, can you please explain where this "wealth", you claim to have generated (I don't think you have created any by the way - it's of no value on a deserted island)

Wealth is anything that has value to someone. Basic necessities of life are examples of wealth. You really didn't know this?

has been monetized to form capital that can be exchanged for either personal consumption, investment or creation of jobs either on this island or taken with you when you get off this island?

Your attempt to move the goal posts, along with your extended question has no bearing on the fact that what I presented is a perfect example of wealth being created without capital. You asked, and I provided.

Wealth is in the eye of the beholder. Capital is in the eye of the market.

If it makes you happier, let's suppose an entire cruise line was shipwrecked on the same island. Suddenly there is a market for your stockpile of food, shelter, weapons, gardening tools, etc. This becomes "capital" in every sense of the word because you can use it to purchase labor from those in the market for food and shelter. This is pretty much how human civilizations begin, which is why I bring it up. The question is which came first, and I think the answer is pretty obvious, even if you refuse to see it.

So you have become a great craftsman on the island, but where do you employ your skills to create capital and begin to form labor?

My example was designed to prove the point that capital is not required for labor to create wealth. To prove "capital" can be created from labor without preexisting capital, all I had to do was alter the scenario to include a market. It was quite simple really.

I'm still waiting for you to explain for us how capital came into existence without labor.

Are really serious with this question? Have you not been in tune with our current economy?

Now you're just being obtuse. You know very well that this question was asked, not to determine whether created capital can then just exist on its own. Of course it can. The issue is whether or not capital came into existence without labor, which was the whole point of your question and which is why I worded it the same way you did.

We're all still waiting for you to explain how this could be so.

Do you have any idea how many articles and discussions there has been about all the capital sitting on the sideline and not being invested because of current White House Admin policies uncertainties? I have a lot of capital. More than I will ever need for the rest of my life for personal consumption. I would love to put more of my capital to work and create jobs and commerce. But like so many, can't get motivated by the direction of our current political administration.

This is all myth. Please explain how the White House has created fear in corporate America's desire to invest!

[_Jason Bourne]

My colleagues and I also have (control of) a lot of capital. We chose to use some of it to try to benefit those in other countries (where religious belief severely blunts the opportunities for many). We decided to work with those who wanted to "build where they stood", and could use a better education, and some good American technology to do so. And it worked (for everybody). And (would you believe it), we are now creating real jobs both here and in the US with overseas capital.

Fantastic!

Here is the kicker: Obama policies have made this all possible. Under Romney's stated policies (who knows what he would really do if elected), it is likely that we would either scale back (or shut down) US operations and move overseas permanently, or pack up, head home, and go back to playing the zero sum game just like we were under the last Republican administration.

What polocies specifically did Obama put in place to allow you to do this and what specific things would Romnery do that would so dramtically cause you to close your doorrs and head home?

If your goal is simply capital preservation, then Romney might be your man. But if you are into using capital to create jobs in the working and middle classes, cleaning up the environment, giving all an opportunity for a better life (rather than just those with wealth to preserve) and using technology in beneficial ways, then Romney is (or should be) your worst nightmare.

I am very curious to here some substance behind this. Can you expound?

Something to think about: The area in which we are working is 95% Muslim. It has an illiteracy rate above 30%. Yet the government in the country as a whole has the good sense to to provide universal health care.

How does universal healthy care impact the setting up or the closing down of your businesses overseas?

[_palerobber]

I have a lot of capital.  More than I will ever need for the rest of my life for personal consumption.  I would love to put more of my capital to work and create jobs and commerce.  But like so many, can't get motivated by the direction of our current political administration.

Basically, our hero is confessing that he's a weak-kneed wimp. He needs other men of more mettle to motivate him. He would "love to" create jobs (self-deceit), but he'll just have to sit back and valiantly enjoy his personal consumption, since the right person is not in the White House motivating him to create jobs (lie) by allowing him to keep more of his money (for his personal consumption).

and what makes his position even more unintentionally funny is that at other times, when it's conventient, people like Joey will claim that wealthy people are a blessing to the economy even if all they do is buy stuff or even just keep money in a bank.

[_Analytics]

You know I have a economic question that I'll ask through a scenario. Role play along with me if you will.

Droopy has a paintball range. He has the paintballs and the guns ready to be rented or sold. He has the helmets and protective gear. He has a Slushie machine and a hot pretzel machine for between games. He has two different arenas for those busy Saturday afternoons. He's produced a top notch product. Why does it fail? He has built it...why do they not paintball?

That is a good example. This hypothetical paintball entrepreneur really, really wants to produce more than he’s producing, but he can’t because there just isn’t a demand for the services he’s offering. And it’s important to understand that the reason he isn’t producing more isn’t because he doesn’t want to produce more because of government regulation or whatever. And it isn’t because consumers don’t have money—they do. It’s a simple liquidity trap where there aren’t enough people who want to borrow to balance-out the people who want to save.

[_beastie]

We've had historically low taxes for the wealthy for quite a while now, since W. So where are all the jobs? Or is it time to admit that "trickle down" just doesn't work?

[_Analytics]

I have a lot of capital. More than I will ever need for the rest of my life for personal consumption. I would love to put more of my capital to work and create jobs and commerce. But like so many, can't get motivated by the direction of our current political administration.

Basically, our hero is confessing that he's a weak-kneed wimp. He needs other men of more mettle to motivate him. He would "love to" create jobs (self-deceit), but he'll just have to sit back and valiantly enjoy his personal consumption, since the right person is not in the White House motivating him to create jobs (lie) by allowing him to keep more of his money (for his personal consumption).

and what makes his position even more unintentionally funny is that at other times, when it's conventient, people like Joey will claim that wealthy people are a blessing to the economy even if all they do is buy stuff or even just keep money in a bank.

Exactly. It's flabbergasting how wimpy Republicans think entrepreneurs are—they must be absolutely coddled by the government in order to be willing to make money for themselves and thereby provide a few jobs in the process.

But I wonder. Is Joey really a weak-kneed wimp, or is he just being dishonest with us (and possibly with himself)? After all, if folks like Joey think government borrowing can lead to hyper-inflation, keeping his money on the sideline is risky too--the best way to mitigate that risk would be to invest it in a business where the profits would rise with CPI. Plus, he'd be making a great return in the meantime.

So does he really have great ideas for how he could invest his money and make a great return, or is he just making excuses for not having any ideas he's willing to bet on?

[_Bob Loblaw]

Sorry for the derail but "church discipline" sounds kind of kinky, like latex-clad nuns with whips.

In reality it's probably not that much fun.