Did we have a pre-premortal existence?

[_Albion]

Jo, as I have said before, you have this amazing ability to read into posts things that are just not there and have not been said and out of that you launch into this pious and self righteous sermon assuming things that you know nothing about and which fly in the face of countless posts I have made on this board. I consider your post personal and offensive in the extreme but I have come to expect personal assault from many of the Mormons on this board. Despite the fact that I disagree strongly with much of the basis of your beliefs, I have never questioned your sincerity and find it insulting that you would presume to know me, my motives, and my thinking and in so doing would question my sincerity and quality of belief.

[_gdemetz]

Albion, it is not your sincerity that we are questioning. It is your ability to interpret what the scriptures clearly state as well as what we are stating here in support of those scriptures. Your group of evangelicals here seem to have difficulty in doing this. Examples:

"Just men made perfect." Who are the just? They are the ones who are striving to have faith WITH works by keeping the commandments. Do they become perfect all on their own? Of course not! That is why it states "MADE." And, how are they made perfect so that they can dwell in the celestial kingdom where no unclean thing is allowed? They are made perfect by God and Christ, and the Holy Ghost is constantly dwelling in them so that they always "have that same mind which is also in Christ Jesus"! Consequently, they speak as the angels speak, by the power of the Ho;y Ghost!

One of your group here has interpreted in error David's statement that the Lord would not leave his soul in hell as referring to Christ! It seems as though, when it comes to the scriptures, the followers of other religions lose all ability to comprehend simple English! If I stated that the Lord would not leave my soul in hell, and neither would He suffer Christ to see corruption, then I believe that they could understnad that. However, since it is written in the scriptures, they don't seem to be able to! [deleted]!!!

[_Franktalk]

Jo, as I have said before, you have this amazing ability to read into posts things that are just not there and have not been said and out of that you launch into this pious and self righteous sermon assuming things that you know nothing about and which fly in the face of countless posts I have made on this board. I consider your post personal and offensive in the extreme but I have come to expect personal assault from many of the Mormons on this board. Despite the fact that I disagree strongly with much of the basis of your beliefs, I have never questioned your sincerity and find it insulting that you would presume to know me, my motives, and my thinking and in so doing would question my sincerity and quality of belief.

You have a unique ability to make the point for Jo. You assume that she is somehow attacking you for being wrong about your beliefs. She stated that you should love yourself. With this post you seem to disagree with her. Does this mean you think it is appropriate to hate yourself? Just what is your position? Since you went into attack mode and left out all references to the real issues I find you shallow and lacking in self analysis.

Here are the points

1. love yourself is part of a commandment from God
2. You can not love God as yourself if you hate yourself
3. Loving others requires a reference love of yourself. If you don't love yourself how can you love others.
4. Following Jesus requires work on our part. Jesus can not walk for us. And He can't keep the commandments for us.

Stick to the issues and leave the arm waving out.

[_Albion]

Enter another with a personal attack. That said, the point of my original comment had nothing whatsoever to do with keeping commandments which is the false assumption made by Jo and repeated by you. The comment I made was in response to gdemetz's statement as to "striving" for perfection. I have made very clear my position on commandment keeping and I have also made my stance very clear on the issue of working for perfection as Jo well knows. That you choose to support Jo in her tangent and sermonizing on issues that have have nothing to do with my point clearly underlines to me the real intent of your interjection.

[_Drifting]

Enter another with a personal attack. That said, the point of my original comment had nothing whatsoever to do with keeping commandments which is the false assumption made by Jo and repeated by you. The comment I made was in response to gdemetz's statement as to "striving" for perfection. I have made very clear my position on commandment keeping and I have also made my stance very clear on the issue of working for perfection as Jo well knows. That you choose to support Jo in her tangent and sermonizing on issues that have have nothing to do with my point clearly underlines to me the real intent of your interjection.

Albion, you should be aware that Jo and Frantalk are romantically coupled in real life.
(I'm not breaching board rules, it was Jo that mentioned this some time ago).

[_Franktalk]

Albion, you should be aware that Jo and Frantalk are romantically coupled in real life.
(I'm not breaching board rules, it was Jo that mentioned this some time ago).

You act like we agree on everything. Now that is funny.

And what has this got to do with the issues? Or are you just being a creep?

[_jo1952]

Albion, you should be aware that Jo and Frantalk are romantically coupled in real life.
(I'm not breaching board rules, it was Jo that mentioned this some time ago).

You act like we agree on everything. Now that is funny.

And what has this got to do with the issues? Or are you just being a creep?

That IS funny. Frank and I are married. When have you known a husband and wife to agree on even most things? Heck, we have only been together for a short time. I am still trying to train him!!! It's going very slowly because we are both old and set in our ways.......

Blessings,

jo

[_jo1952]

Enter another with a personal attack. That said, the point of my original comment had nothing whatsoever to do with keeping commandments which is the false assumption made by Jo and repeated by you. The comment I made was in response to gdemetz's statement as to "striving" for perfection. I have made very clear my position on commandment keeping and I have also made my stance very clear on the issue of working for perfection as Jo well knows. That you choose to support Jo in her tangent and sermonizing on issues that have have nothing to do with my point clearly underlines to me the real intent of your interjection.

Albion,

I should just stop asking these types of questions of you. You do not yet see what your beliefs look like; though you are happy to tell others what is wrong with their beliefs. So you feel it is okay to challenge what others believe; but when asked about what your own beliefs look like, you quickly divert the discussion and whine about how our comments are offensive to you.

by the way, these threads you post in are not only about the points you are trying to make. Others ask questions and make comments for the purpose of making their own points as well.

Blessings,

jo

[_Albion]

At the top of page 18 on this thread you will see my response to the issue of "striving to be perfect". If you want to discuss that as a topic, go ahead but please spare me the psycho analysis which was the essence of your post rather than any attempt to address the issue. My stand is that Christ Jesus is the believer's perfection and nowhere have I ever suggested that we are in any way exempt from keeping commandments....but that keeping commandments is the demonstration of saving grace and not the process of earning it. Only one perfect person has ever lived and I doubt you or I will meet any others in our lifetime. How in any way you can presume to make comments suggesting self hatred or lack of self worth and love from that is totally beyond me. By turning the discussion to a presumed assumption of that is not worthy of you. I expected better and that was the measure of my response to your post. My original post in answer to yours was short and I deliberately avoided voicing my objections lest in reacting quickly I might include words I would regret. I was happy to leave it there but you continued pressing your tangent provoking my response. If you define this as whining, so be it...no doubt your will have your perceptions regardless.

[_Franktalk]

....... My stand is that Christ Jesus is the believer's perfection and nowhere have I ever suggested that we are in any way exempt from keeping commandments....but that keeping commandments is the demonstration of saving grace and not the process of earning it........

You will have to explain what you mean by this. I always though that keeping the commandments was a form of work. Are you somehow implying that grace is responsible? Where is free will?