Tobin wrote:Uh, Mittens - what are you driving at exactly?
First, a church is merely an association of members. Joe Smith or Joe Blow and form a church at any time they want, with or without God's authority.
And second, if someone has God's priesthood (or authority), then it will be clearly manifested. Otherwise, they don't got it no matter what they claim or when they claimed to have received it.
How would it be clearly manifest?
Oops I now see your answer. I should read the whole thread before posting.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality. ~Bill Hamblin
Albion wrote:Tobin, since your didn't answer my question I will rephrase my question: Do you believe the Mechizedec priesthood is extant within the Mormon Church either by men or by the church as an entity?
I've answered in the thread. It believe it may be possible, but if so, it is rare. However, I wouldn't stipulate that you have to be in the Mormon Church to have God's authority either. God authority unsurprisingly comes from God.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Drifting wrote:How is Mittens claim any weaker than the one you are making?
A lack of examples...
I'm pointing out the rarity of this ability as a demonstration that it is in fact rare. We only have a few examples in the scriptures or otherwise.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Drifting wrote:How is Mittens claim any weaker than the one you are making?
A lack of examples...
I'm pointing out the rarity of this ability as a demonstration that it is in fact rare. We only have a few examples in the scriptures or otherwise.
Those same examples support Mittens too.
Most religions claim they are the real one. Especially Mormonism. You claim none of them are real and Gods authority is given to specific individuals rather than a collective of individuals, called a Church.
Whilst no proof exists to support the LDS claim on the M.P. the same can be said for your view point.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Drifting wrote:Those same examples support Mittens too.
Most religions claim they are the real one. Especially Mormonism. You claim none of them are real and Gods authority is given to specific individuals rather than a collective of individuals, called a Church.
Whilst no proof exists to support the LDS claim on the M.P. the same can be said for your view point.
Not really. Mittens claims all evangelicals have the priesthood. I'd like to meet one. Can Mittens provide one example?
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Drifting wrote:Those same examples support Mittens too.
Most religions claim they are the real one. Especially Mormonism. You claim none of them are real and Gods authority is given to specific individuals rather than a collective of individuals, called a Church.
Whilst no proof exists to support the LDS claim on the M.P. the same can be said for your view point.
Not really. Mittens claims all evangelicals have the priesthood. I'd like to meet one. Can Mittens provide one example?
I'm not aware of you providing a single example in support of your claim...yet...
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Tobin wrote:Not really. Mittens claims all evangelicals have the priesthood. I'd like to meet one. Can Mittens provide one example?
I'm not aware of you providing a single example in support of your claim...yet...
Moses, Elijah, Jesus Christ...
Really Drifting?!? Do you not understand anything about this topic?
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Really Drifting?!? Do you not understand anything about this topic?
CFR that Christ had the Priesthood, he was Jewish!
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Really Drifting?!? Do you not understand anything about this topic?
CFR that Christ had the Priesthood, he was Jewish!
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
I think the main problem is that the claimed event wasn't brought up by Joseph and Oliver until well after the event was supposed to have taken place, and I believe Peter Whitmer was very questioning that this event actually happened. It does make one wonder why they would not record the event when it happened as they have claimed for other events. This would be a very important event for the church.
