The Bottom Line

[_Drifting]

We'll see. When you see God, you can ask him.

Which God?

It's a serious question, which God?
There are lots of versions - which one is the accurate one?

[_Gunnar]

A father who has admitted killing six people, including his wife and two children, is still "hearing voices inside his head", a court has heard.
Damian Rzeszowski, 31, a Polish immigrant who was living in Jersey, is on trial for the murders of his wife Izabella, 30, his daughter Kinga, five, and his son Kacper, two.

He is also accused of stabbing his father-in-law Marek Garstka, 56, as well as family friend Marta de la Haye, 34 and her little girl Julia, five.

The attacks took place at Rzeszowski's flat in St Helier.

A psychiatric consultant, Dr Dale Harrison, who treated Rzeszowski in the aftermath of the attacks, said the defendant continued to "hear voices inside his head".

Sky News

This brings up an important point. Hearing voices inside one's head, whether believed to be from God or not, is one of the most reliable diagnostic indicators of mental illness. Mental health professionals have long been aware of the close association between mental illness and strong religiosity. One would think that many devout believers would find this fact very discomfiting indeed. Few people hearing "God's still small voice" inside their heads are willing to seriously consider the possibility that this may merely be symptomatic of mental illness in their own particular case-whether it is or not.

[_Themis]

The OP is absurd. If you wish to diligently and faithfully seek God, do so. If you don't, then do not. But don't whine about trying.

How is it absurd. He makes an observation about how people use the spiritual experience to come up with objective truth claims, even though most can't come to agreement about these claimed truths. How is this observation and questions about it absurd. I think at this point you are just attempting to skirt the issue.

[_Gunnar]

I find it extremely amusing that many of Tobin's (especially Tobin's) and sub's attempts to refute the conclusion stated in my OP only inadvertently reinforce the validity of that very conclusion, and they seem incapable of realizing it!

Has anyone else besides me noticed that?

[_Gunnar]

The OP is absurd. If you wish to diligently and faithfully seek God, do so. If you don't, then do not. But don't whine about trying.

How is it absurd. He makes an observation about how people use the spiritual experience to come up with objective truth claims, even though most can't come to agreement about these claimed truths. How is this observation and questions about it absurd. I think at this point you are just attempting to skirt the issue.

Thank you again Themis!

[_Tobin]

How is it absurd. He makes an observation about how people use the spiritual experience to come up with objective truth claims, even though most can't come to agreement about these claimed truths. How is this observation and questions about it absurd. I think at this point you are just attempting to skirt the issue.

Thank you again Themis!

Gunnar, Themis isn't helping you. He's just restating the OP.

The reason the OP is absurd is it isn't about other people's observations. It is about your own observations. Other people can't attain enlightenment for you and most people do not attain it in this lifetime (which is undoubtedly where Themis will end up). By pointing out something obvious like that, you aren't being illuminating in the slightest.

Again, if you wish to be a faithful follower and seeker of God, then do so. If not, then don't. But your reasons for not doing so has little bearing on if God is real, whether others have experienced God and know God is real, and that has further enlightened their lives. It ONLY means you have not done so. And that is all it means.

[_Drifting]

I find it extremely amusing that many of Tobin's (especially Tobin's) and sub's attempts to refute the conclusion stated in my OP only inadvertently reinforce the validity of that very conclusion, and they seem incapable of realizing it!

Has anyone else besides me noticed that?

Yes.
But they can't see it, as to do so would collapse the perceived strength of their belief system.

[_Gunnar]

The reason the OP is absurd is it isn't about other people's observations. It is about your own observations. Other people can't attain enlightenment for you and most people do not attain it in this lifetime (which is undoubtedly where Themis will end up). By pointing out something obvious like that, you aren't being illuminating in the slightest.

Again, if you wish to be a faithful follower and seeker of God, then do so. If not, then don't. But your reasons for not doing so has little bearing on if God is real, whether others have experienced God and know God is real, and that has further enlightened their lives. It ONLY means you have not done so. And that is all it means.

Fail! You are still skirting the issue, just as Themis said, and ignoring the obvious "elephant in the room."

[_Tobin]

The reason the OP is absurd is it isn't about other people's observations. It is about your own observations. Other people can't attain enlightenment for you and most people do not attain it in this lifetime (which is undoubtedly where Themis will end up). By pointing out something obvious like that, you aren't being illuminating in the slightest.

Again, if you wish to be a faithful follower and seeker of God, then do so. If not, then don't. But your reasons for not doing so has little bearing on if God is real, whether others have experienced God and know God is real, and that has further enlightened their lives. It ONLY means you have not done so. And that is all it means.

Fail! You are still skirting the issue, just as Themis said, and ignoring the obvious "elephant in the room."

The only "elephant in the room" is in YOUR HEAD. It is a made up reason for not doing what you should and it doesn't matter in the end. Gunnar - you are going to see God eventually. You can choose to seek and speak with God now and have that blessing in your life. Or you can wait. In either event, God is real and your reasons will evaporate after you see him and speak with him.

[_Gunnar]

The only "elephant in the room" is in YOUR HEAD. It is a made up reason for not doing what you should and it doesn't matter in the end. Gunnar - you are going to see God eventually. You can choose to seek and speak with God now and have that blessing in your life. Or you can wait. In either event, God is real and your reasons will evaporate after you see him and speak with him.

The problem I see with that is that I am far from the only person who has ever made that same observation, and you still have not been able to come up with any justification for doubting the validity of that observation that is even the slightest bit convincing. In fact, you have inadvertently and repeatedly reinforced its validity by your own arguments, whether you realize it or not!