Adam, first man circa 4,000 bc....?

[_LittleNipper]

The real Bottom Line is that both the Old Testament and Jesus Christ speak of Noah. And yet there are those that insist Noah is not real.

Well why didn't you just say so? I mean, how could the Old Testament and Jesus Christ both be wrong?

Yes, how could they both be wrong? And it is interesting that in recent history the world witnessed an entire nation accepting the direction of a dictator as fact. In reality, there were several nations who fell under the spell of governmental false ideology. I cannot imagine that science departments are somehow immune. Especially if they are secularized ---- satan is there I'm sure. He doesn't need an invitation.

[Guest]

...

[_Themis]

.........

Hello Themis,

Again, you have not heard anything I said. It is not even on a list anywhere real or imagined that you need to hear me or agree with me. I hope it is the same for you when you think about me (which I think it is). You have a beautiful spirit; and I love you.

Blessings,

jo

I heard and understood everything you said. I also am not trying to force anyone to believe what I say, but I do hope they will be open indeed enough to consider it. I know many here will not. Sethbag is also now giving the same advice that I have done in seeking out LDS scientists at BYU. We do this only because maybe you might be more open minded with them then those you see as unbelievers. It's not the end of the world if you don't.

[_jo1952]

The Bible is real and God created what is real. The Book of Mormon is not genuine, and so the faith of those who accept Mormonism is terribly flawed and in union with the material world that is yet under satan's spell. Oh, that spell has been broken by Christ Jesus ---- but only for those who place their faith in Christ and not in their own understanding. Satan has lost the war ---- but he is still able to confound, confuse, and distort things for those seeking shortcuts and by-passes of their own design. Satan is always happy to assist.

Hello LittleNipper,

I also believe that the Bible is real. However, the Bible itself teaches us that the New Testament contains only what believers were able to handle. It does not even contain everything that was taught to the ancient Apostles. Further, Jesus teaches us that He only taught the Apostles what Father wanted Him to teach them. Jesus did NOT teach them everything He knew because they were not ready for more. I find this amazing since the Apostles were being taught by the Master Himself. From the time of Christ's Resurrection until the time of Christ's Ascension, there were at least 40 days of what I believe was intensive instruction from our Savior to His Apostles. Yet still His chosen vessels could not handle all of the Truth which Christ knew. There must be so very much more to All Truth than we can even begin to imagine!!

In KNOWING this do you not see that your own belief system is lacking and is incomplete? It is the Holy Ghost, the Comforter, who will lead us to ALL TRUTH. Now, whatever additional Truth the Apostles were taught by the Holy Ghost, they were not able to pass along to the members of the ancient church. Paul was very clear about this. He declares this when saying he is only able to teach a milk understanding because they cannot bare more than that; he also rebukes them because they should have been ready for more. Paul spent much of his time trying to teach about the Holy Ghost; how to recognize what the Holy Ghost taught, and how it would defer so greatly from milk/worldly understanding. He also emphasized how those who DID walk in the spirit would be ridiculed by those still stuck in a worldly walk.

So, we do not know everything which Jesus taught the Apostles; and we do not know everything the Holy Ghost taught them either. It simply has not been recorded in the Bible. There is a reason for this. Just look at how ALL believers have continued to argue over the interpretation of scripture for the last 2000 years. How can the church be ready to receive more Truth??? I believe the answer is through personal revelation and individuals as explained by Peter when he repeated Joel's prophecy. Through our sons and our daughters, through our old men, through Christ's servants and handmaidens; In other words through US....any of mankind is potentially a prophet, or a visionary, or a dreamer! Notice how Christ makes a distinction between your sons and your daughters and your old men versus "my" servants and "my" handmaidens. My servants and my handmaidens would appear to be those who believe in Christ. However, "your" sons and "your" daughters and "your" old men would appear to be those who do not believe in Christ (as Peter is speaking to non-believers!!!).

To be clear, John taught us Peter told the people on Pentecost when they (who were not believers) saw and witnessed what went on with the believers when tongues of fire landed upon the believers and they spoke in tongues....in the languages which the nonbelievers understood because the languages were their native languages, that this was the beginning of the fulfilling of the prophecy of Joel.

Acts 2:16-21 (KJV)

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

What are some of the prophecies you have heard being told from either Christ's servants and handmaidens; or from the sons and daughters of men? What visions have you heard of which young men are seeing? What dreams have you heard spoken of by mankind's old men? If Peter and Joel were not lying, then this is happening all over the earth in order to include all flesh. Can you share some with us?

Blessings,

jo

[Guest]

The Bible is real and God created what is real. The Book of Mormon is not genuine, and so the faith of those who accept Mormonism is terribly flawed and in union with the material world that is yet under satan's spell. Oh, that spell has been broken by Christ Jesus ---- but only for those who place their faith in Christ and not in their own understanding. Satan has lost the war ---- but he is still able to confound, confuse, and distort things for those seeking shortcuts and by-passes of their own design. Satan is always happy to assist.

Hello LittleNipper,

I also believe that the Bible is real. However, the Bible itself teaches us that the New Testament contains only what believers were able to handle. It does not even contain everything that was taught to the ancient Apostles. Further, Jesus teaches us that He only taught the Apostles what Father wanted Him to teach them. Jesus did NOT teach them everything He knew because they were not ready for more. I find this amazing since the Apostles were being taught by the Master Himself. From the time of Christ's Resurrection until the time of Christ's Ascension, there were at least 40 days of what I believe was intensive instruction from our Savior to His Apostles. Yet still His chosen vessels could not handle all of the Truth which Christ knew. There must be so very much more to All Truth than we can even begin to imagine!!

In KNOWING this do you not see that your own belief system is lacking and is incomplete? It is the Holy Ghost, the Comforter, who will lead us to ALL TRUTH. Now, whatever additional Truth the Apostles were taught by the Holy Ghost, they were not able to pass along to the members of the ancient church. Paul was very clear about this. He declares this when saying he is only able to teach a milk understanding because they cannot bare more than that; he also rebukes them because they should have been ready for more. Paul spent much of his time trying to teach about the Holy Ghost; how to recognize what the Holy Ghost taught, and how it would defer so greatly from milk/worldly understanding. He also emphasized how those who DID walk in the spirit would be ridiculed by those still stuck in a worldly walk.

So, we do not know everything which Jesus taught the Apostles; and we do not know everything the Holy Ghost taught them either. It simply has not been recorded in the Bible. There is a reason for this. Just look at how ALL believers have continued to argue over the interpretation of scripture for the last 2000 years. How can the church be ready to receive more Truth??? I believe the answer is through personal revelation and individuals as explained by Peter when he repeated Joel's prophecy. Through our sons and our daughters, through our old men, through Christ's servants and handmaidens; In other words through US....any of mankind is potentially a prophet, or a visionary, or a dreamer! Notice how Christ makes a distinction between your sons and your daughters and your old men versus "my" servants and "my" handmaidens. My servants and my handmaidens would appear to be those who believe in Christ. However, "your" sons and "your" daughters and "your" old men would appear to be those who do not believe in Christ (as Peter is speaking to non-believers!!!).

To be clear, John taught us Peter told the people on Pentecost when they (who were not believers) saw and witnessed what went on with the believers when tongues of fire landed upon the believers and they spoke in tongues....in the languages which the nonbelievers understood because the languages were their native languages, that this was the beginning of the fulfilling of the prophecy of Joel.

Acts 2:16-21 (KJV)

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

What are some of the prophecies you have heard being told from either Christ's servants and handmaidens; or from the sons and daughters of men? What visions have you heard of which young men are seeing? What dreams have you heard spoken of by mankind's old men? If Peter and Joel were not lying, then this is happening all over the earth in order to include all flesh. Can you share some with us?

Blessings,

jo

I don't see this as lacking at all. The knowledge was to the choosen Apostles of Jesus, who would write the New Testament, as they were led to remember of the "Comforter." That is now closed. Revelations was the climax of what God now wants for Christians to fathom. When a Christian dies, he will then know exactly what God wants him to know at that time. Christians do not prove their faith through finding secret knowledge or hidden meanings. Faith comes through hearing and listening to the Word of God. Yes, I see that we are fast approaching the time of the catching away of the Church and the end of the Church Age/The Age of Grace. However, while I am here , like Noah, I am to be a witness to the salvation Christ brings for all whosoever will. Once that door is shut the Great Tribulation is what it is --- I'll be safe in the Ark at the wedding feast of the Lamb.

[_jo1952]

What are some of the prophecies you have heard being told from either Christ's servants and handmaidens; or from the sons and daughters of men? What visions have you heard of which young men are seeing? What dreams have you heard spoken of by mankind's old men? If Peter and Joel were not lying, then this is happening all over the earth in order to include all flesh. Can you share some with us?

Blessings,

jo

I don't see this as lacking at all. The knowledge was to the choosen Apostiles of Jesus, who would write the New Testament, as they were led to remember of the "Comforter." That is now closed. Revelations was the climax of what God now wants for Christians to fathom. When a Christian dies, he will then know exactly what God wants him to know at that time. Christians do not prove their faith through finding secret knowledge or hidden meanings. Faith comes through hearing and listening to the Word of God. Yes, I see that we are fast approaching the time of the catching away of the Church and the end of the Church Age/The Age of Grace. However, while I am here , like Noah, I am to be a witness to the salvation Christ brings for all whosoever will. Once that door is shut the Great Tribulation is what it is --- I'll be safe in the Ark at the wedding feast of the Lamb.

Do I understand you correctly? Do you believe that the Holy Ghost has already finished leading us to All Truth? The Apostles have taught us they did not teach us All Truth!!!!!

Also, it looks like you think Joel and Peter were speaking about only the time that the ancient Apostles were alive? Is that correct? So, since the Apostles didn't teach us All Truth, you believe that what they DID teach is all that God wanted us to know for now? And the Holy Ghost is no longer leading mankind to All Truth?

It sounds to me like you are torturing the scriptures to conform them to your belief system. It would also follow that you could not possibly have had any personal experiencing of the Holy Ghost since that is "now closed". If you claim the Holy Ghost HAS given you ANY PART of Truth, then your own belief about the Holy Ghost is inconsistant.

What of Peter's teaching to be diligent in order to make your calling and election made sure? What of Jame's teaching:

James 1:3-6 (KJV)

3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

Are you already perfect? Enoch's knowledge was complete; as a result, he was translated. God does not change. You are still here. James taught we could learn wisdom we lack. Is this no longer true? Why have you tossed this teaching? Because it does not agree with what you think Revelation is teaching?

Does the book of Revelation over-ride everything else taught in the New Testament which is not consistant with it? Do you realize that is what your belief looks like?

So, let me re-word the last paragraph I wrote in my previous post to you; this time in accordance with your response.

"What are some of the prophecies told by Christ's handmaidens which were given to them while the Apostles were alive? What are some of the prophecies received by the sons and daughters of non-believers while the Apostles were alive? What are some of the visions which young men non-believers saw while the Apostles were alive? What were some of the dreams non-believing old men dreamt while the Apostles were alive? I'll even accept those that came from believers, so long as it happened while the Apostles were alive. If Peter and Joel were not lying, then this happened; according to your belief, this has already taken place. This would now be fulfilled prophecy. Fulfilled prophecy was always recorded in scripture so that we would know that it had been fulfilled. God does not change. So where can we find these fulfilled prophecies?"

Blessings,

jo

[_Franktalk]

Littlenipper,

God must be sleeping, your still here. Shouldn't you be with Enoch??

[_Bond James Bond]

My friend,

There is another thread going on right now about the flood. Every piece of evidence presented that does not support your conclusion you have dismissed with one excuse or another. Franktalk and I have studied the same evidences; I particularly feel the book by Lester C. King, "Wandering Continents and Spreading Sea Floors on an Expanding Earth", is good. Neither "side" has proven a thing.

You have not heard anything I said. You are so fixed on your agenda that you cannot see or hear anything else.

Blessings,

jo

Jo,

Please come over to the Great Flood thread and show me how Noah and the rest of the crew of the U.S.S. Ark had time to feed and care for all the animals. I hope you bring something more than LittleNipper's "Noah trained monkeys and elephants to help".

[Guest]

What are some of the prophecies you have heard being told from either Christ's servants and handmaidens; or from the sons and daughters of men? What visions have you heard of which young men are seeing? What dreams have you heard spoken of by mankind's old men? If Peter and Joel were not lying, then this is happening all over the earth in order to include all flesh. Can you share some with us?

Blessings,

jo

I don't see this as lacking at all. The knowledge was to the choosen Apostiles of Jesus, who would write the New Testament, as they were led to remember of the "Comforter." That is now closed. Revelations was the climax of what God now wants for Christians to fathom. When a Christian dies, he will then know exactly what God wants him to know at that time. Christians do not prove their faith through finding secret knowledge or hidden meanings. Faith comes through hearing and listening to the Word of God. Yes, I see that we are fast approaching the time of the catching away of the Church and the end of the Church Age/The Age of Grace. However, while I am here , like Noah, I am to be a witness to the salvation Christ brings for all whosoever will. Once that door is shut the Great Tribulation is what it is --- I'll be safe in the Ark at the wedding feast of the Lamb.

Do I understand you correctly? Do you believe that the Holy Ghost has already finished leading us to All Truth? The Apostles have taught us they did not teach us All Truth!!!!!

Also, it looks like you think Joel and Peter were speaking about only the time that the ancient Apostles were alive? Is that correct? So, since the Apostles didn't teach us All Truth, you believe that what they DID teach is all that God wanted us to know for now? And the Holy Ghost is no longer leading mankind to All Truth?

It sounds to me like you are torturing the scriptures to conform them to your belief system. It would also follow that you could not possibly have had any personal experiencing of the Holy Ghost since that is "now closed". If you claim the Holy Ghost HAS given you ANY PART of Truth, then your own belief about the Holy Ghost is inconsistant.

What of Peter's teaching to be diligent in order to make your calling and election made sure? What of Jame's teaching:

James 1:3-6 (KJV)

3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

Are you already perfect? Enoch's knowledge was complete; as a result, he was translated. God does not change. You are still here. James taught we could learn wisdom we lack. Is this no longer true? Why have you tossed this teaching? Because it does not agree with what you think Revelation is teaching?

Does the book of Revelation over-ride everything else taught in the New Testament which is not consistant with it? Do you realize that is what your belief looks like?

So, let me re-word the last paragraph I wrote in my previous post to you; this time in accordance with your response.

"What are some of the prophecies told by Christ's handmaidens which were given to them while the Apostles were alive? What are some of the prophecies received by the sons and daughters of non-believers while the Apostles were alive? What are some of the visions which young men non-believers saw while the Apostles were alive? What were some of the dreams non-believing old men dreamt while the Apostles were alive? I'll even accept those that came from believers, so long as it happened while the Apostles were alive. If Peter and Joel were not lying, then this happened; according to your belief, this has already taken place. This would now be fulfilled prophecy. Fulfilled prophecy was always recorded in scripture so that we would know that it had been fulfilled. God does not change. So where can we find these fulfilled prophecies?"

Blessings,

jo

What you seem to be mixing up is pre-rapture Age of Grace (Church Age) with The time of Jacob's Trouble (7 Year Tribulation Period). The Bible (God's Word ) is complete. There is nothing to add to the reason Christ came, His kingship, Mary and Joseph's linage, Christ's mode of sacrafice, Christ's resurrection, Christ's assention, the establishment of Christ's Church (body of all believers), the prophecy of His eventual return to reign for 1000 years, ending with the final battle with satan and the creation of a new universe. The handmaiderns, etc., has to do with the return of the Bridegroom (Christ). The dreaming dreams, etc., happens post rapture. It is my belief that Enoch will be one of the 2 witnesses who is sent by God during the Tribulation, is killed and 3 days later is resurrected. That is because Enoch never saw death. I feel God has made Enoch a witness to the Flood and the Tribulation.

[_bcuzbcuz]

The glaciers arrived after the Flood. The Uniformitarian scientists may believe the glaciers have been around forever, but they sure seem to be melting a lot faster then anyone ever imagined --- are they not? Could be they miscalculated?

In reference to the glaciers I suggest you do a little study of JD Hays or Shackleton or Berger and their ice cores. Ice cores drilled in Greenland, recovered, then painstakingly counted, every single layer, cores that are over 3000 meters long (that's 10,000 feet of ice!) show a record of ice formation that is more than 100,000!!! years old. The ice layers can be counted just like core samples from trees and the growth rings add up in a similar fashion.

Each year of snow gets compacted over time and each year then becomes a layer that displays the periods of snow during the cold months and lack of snow or even melting during the warm months. The record is not open to conjecture, it just is. Each year of snow is a new layer. Each layer contains trapped pollen particles, trapped CO2, dirt and dust. And each layer can be counted.

The deepest ice core has over 800,000 layers! That's 800,000 years! Try and find one of your "experts" on the age of the earth that can explain away 800,000 ice layers. Oh, and by the way, the ice cores show NO global flood. Not anywhere in the 800,000 (That's eight hundred thousand....count them....800,000 layers)