The LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church!

[_Drifting]

So is Elder Packer mistaken when he, as an Apostle states his testimony, that the Church is the only true Church and has had a witness of that truth?

What about those members who stand up once a month declaring that the Holy Spirit has confirmed the very same thing?

Are they all wrong but you are right?

You are not seeing a thing I said. I said the church has the restored gospel. That makes Packer and everyone else correct. But do we have the correct interpretation of scripture and is it applied as it should be? That is a very different animal. God promised to spread His gospel around the world. He never said all would understand it. It is only through the Holy Ghost that we can obtain God's true message. The Holy Ghost is the witness not scripture.

Frank, who is right - Packer or Jo?
Jo said...

I think that there will be many active LDS who will not like reading this OP because they may still be in the growing of their beliefs where they think the LDS Church IS the ONLY True church on the earth.

I bear testimony that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is, as the Lord declared, the only true and living church upon the face of the earth... Boyd K Packer speaking at General Conference

[_jo1952]

Although we do a lot studying of many scripture sources every day by subject, Frank and I also try to keep up the habit of reading each of the Standard Works from cover to cover. Tonight we started over again on the D&C. I have long felt that the LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church on the earth; because every believer becomes a member of the body of Christ. For years I would share my testimony that I believed the LDS Church was THE True Church. As more and more parts of Truth are revealed to me by the Holy Ghost, my beliefs have evolved, expanded, been adjusted, etc., in accordance with whatever new part of Truth I have received.

To be more accurate, when the LDS church states it is God's one and only true church, they mean in the sense that only it has God's authority. Only the LDS church can provide things like baptisms and healing through priesthood power(Note that I say priesthood power). Only the LDS church has God's prophet and only he can receive revelations pertaining to the world. They are not stating there is not truth outside of the church. Would you agree with these claims of the LDS church?

Hi Themis,

That may be a more accurate statement of what the LDS Church institution believes; however, that is not the understanding that many (if not most) LDS members have. I think that is because the clarification is not made that "they mean in the sense that only it has God's authority." I did recognize the Church's authority when I said:

We are, however, a vehicle through which God is able to have necessary ordinances performed for both the living and the dead.

I appreciate that you made the distinction that the Prophet receives revelations pertaining to the world. That is because I believe that there are prophets who are both inside and outside of the LDS Church as described in the New Testament in these latter days.

Also, as far as healings go, the Church has the priesthood power. However, I believe that prayer and faith also can bring healings even when the priesthood power is not present.

Blessings,

jo

[_Themis]

I did recognize the Church's authority when I said:

We are, however, a vehicle through which God is able to have necessary ordinances performed for both the living and the dead.

I understand that, but the church teaches it is the only one that has authority to perform these things. Do you think the church is the only one that has this authority? I am not bother either way, but just curious.

Also, as far as healings go, the Church has the priesthood power. However, I believe that prayer and faith also can bring healings even when the priesthood power is not present.

That is why I said priesthood. Certainly the church teaches healings can be done with out it.

[_jo1952]

I understand that, but the church teaches it is the only one that has authority to perform these things. Do you think the church is the only one that has this authority? I am not bother either way, but just curious.

Hello Themis,

I need to be careful how I answer this as I am not in complete understanding....In other words, I simply do not know yet.

My current understanding is that there is a difference between having the priesthood power vs having the keys of the Kingdom. I will elaborate on how this looks to me if you want me to. This is still something I struggle with.

That is why I said priesthood. Certainly the church teaches healings can be done with out it.

I agree!

Blessings,

jo

[_Franktalk]

I understand that, but the church teaches it is the only one that has authority to perform these things. Do you think the church is the only one that has this authority? I am not bother either way, but just curious.

When speaking of a church the LDS church has a chain of authority back to God. But that does not mean that there are not individuals with priesthood power that did not get their authority from the restored church. If indeed if John is still alive he received his authority directly from Christ before the restored church. And there are others that we know from scripture have the same authority. We also do not know if God has given authority to others on this earth after Joseph Smith.

Also time is not the same for God as it is for man. Earth or universe time is linear for us but is just a created thing to God so it is easily manipulated. The elect are the elect before they are born. Christ was the Christ before He was born in the flesh. It is man who sees the ordinances as performed in a linear time line. I do not think that God has that same view. Or in the spirit world the events on the earth appear as one moment.

There are hidden or obscure groups who may have had priesthood authority outside of the restored church. Remember what was said.

"and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness"

Notice it does not say heaven. It implies from the earth. I think people read into this what they want. I think it leaves open the idea that there may be pockets still obscure. But the LDS church will not be obscure. That is true to this day.

[_Drifting]

Frank, who is right - Packer or Jo?
Jo said...

I think that there will be many active LDS who will not like reading this OP because they may still be in the growing of their beliefs where they think the LDS Church IS the ONLY True church on the earth.

I bear testimony that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is, as the Lord declared, the only true and living church upon the face of the earth... Boyd K Packer speaking at General Conference

Come on Frank, which person is correct?
A. The Apostle of the Lord 'Packer'
B. The poster known as 'Jo'

[_PrickKicker]

Speaking out against the elect... That's Apostasy!
But not when they get something wrong or its personal opinion.
the Holy Ghost doesn't seem to know or confirm truth either or is that just you not knowing how to interpret its many ways of communicating.

What to do?
Ask your leaders, Read, Ponder and Pray... Stop convincing yourselves that you have not been hood winked and take the bag off your head and the noose from your neck!
& say Screw you to your psychological captors.

[_Franktalk]

What to do?
Ask your leaders, Read, Ponder and Pray... Stop convincing yourselves that you have not been hood winked and take the bag off your head and the noose from your neck!
& say your psychological captors.

You are right, the flesh is weak. Man makes mistakes most of the time. So are we to seek men who make these mistakes or do we seek another who unlike men is not clothed in weakness? It is my opinion that you see what every else sees but you lump truth with being deceived. The only way to see the difference is to allow the comforter to help your vision. Again in order for us to discern we must have help. But being one with a strong will is a stumbling block. Why have help when I can figure it all out. And where does that lead? Why it leads to a view which supports the personal will. A self fulfilling prophecy. But alas you don't believe in prophecy.

[_Themis]

The only way to see the difference is to allow the comforter to help your vision.

Most of us are familiar with this. I don't even have to leave this forum to see how many who claim to have the spirit guiding them can't agree on various topics they think they have learned from the spirit. This is not new to me. I have seen this at church over decades. Most tend to stick within the bounds the church has set up, and those who go to far over find themselves outside of the church, whether by being forced out or leaving themselves. I have talked to a few self proclaimed Prophets over my years, and see no reason they didn't believe in what they were saying and doing. I am not against the spiritual experience. I just see it is not very reliable, and people can so easily get the wrong ideas, and be so convinced they got it right. It just seems unwise to stick to objective truth claims that conflict with more reliable methods based on a very unreliable method that usually has us convincing ourselves of our desired interpretations.

[_subgenius]

...your psychological captors.

and what makes you think that we are not the captors and you the captive?
you are here after all..........