The LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church!

[_PrickKicker]

...your psychological captors.

and what makes you think that we are not the captors and you the captive?
you are here after all..........

Honesty is refreshing.

[_Drifting]

I am feeling a little guilty about the question I have put to Franktalk.
I have put him in an impossible position.

On the one hand, Jo has stated that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints IS NOT the only one true church.

On the other, an Apostle whom he believes to be divinely appointed and inspired, has stated that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints IS the only one true church.

If he goes with Jo he is saying an official exclamation on Church doctrine made by an Apostle is wrong.

If he goes with Packer he is saying that what Jo believes is wrong.

At the moment Frank seems to be hedging his bets by intimating they are both right!

[_Franktalk]

Most of us are familiar with this. I don't even have to leave this forum to see how many who claim to have the spirit guiding them can't agree on various topics they think they have learned from the spirit. This is not new to me. I have seen this at church over decades. Most tend to stick within the bounds the church has set up, and those who go to far over find themselves outside of the church, whether by being forced out or leaving themselves. I have talked to a few self proclaimed Prophets over my years, and see no reason they didn't believe in what they were saying and doing. I am not against the spiritual experience. I just see it is not very reliable, and people can so easily get the wrong ideas, and be so convinced they got it right. It just seems unwise to stick to objective truth claims that conflict with more reliable methods based on a very unreliable method that usually has us convincing ourselves of our desired interpretations.

From the outside the spiritual experience does seem a jumbled mess. It has to be or else it would be proof of God. It must be difficult and frustrating for those who attempt it. But most who attempt this path have not prepared them self. They have not cast off the world before asking for the Holy Ghost. Without this first step they are doomed to a frustrating experience where they might get the smallest hint of feelings but no more unless the Grace of God allows more. It is this single issue which blocks man from the comforter. In fact if you cast off the world and do not ask the HS will come to you regardless. So what you say is correct from an observation point of view. Just ask yourself how many are truly empty vessels? Unless you empty your self of the world there is no room for another in your spiritual center. I have posted at length on this subject and I know of no one who has cast off the world as a result of my words. I think in old times when we did not have all of our scientific knowledge it may have been easier to cast off the world. But maybe I am wrong. It may be that we have turned our education system into a belief system and brainwashed the population. It is after all a world in which Satan rules many things. Many of those we would not even be aware of.

[_Franktalk]

I am feeling a little guilty about the question I have put to Franktalk.
I have put him in an impossible position.

On the one hand, Jo has stated that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints IS NOT the only one true church.

On the other, an Apostle whom he believes to be divinely appointed and inspired, has stated that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints IS the only one true church.

If he goes with Jo he is saying an official exclamation on Church doctrine made by an Apostle is wrong.

If he goes with Packer he is saying that what Jo believes is wrong.

At the moment Frank seems to be hedging his bets by intimating they are both right!

You still have not read and understood what I have posted. But let me add that I am not the keeper of truth so don't come to me for answers seek another. The same can be said of any man on earth. Whether a prophet or an apostle they are not the keeper of truth. They are men and as such are prone to error. This is the world we live in. Anyone who expects perfection in men or the world will be disappointed. Everything said by men must be checked by prayer. Any statement made in one context will be heard in another. This is the world we live in. What you see as obvious and simple logic is not in reality the whole picture. You are attempting to weave an idea from a sea of ideas and then tell me that it is the only way to view this sea of ideas. How silly is that.

[_Drifting]

I am feeling a little guilty about the question I have put to Franktalk.
I have put him in an impossible position.

On the one hand, Jo has stated that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints IS NOT the only one true church.

On the other, an Apostle whom he believes to be divinely appointed and inspired, has stated that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints IS the only one true church.

If he goes with Jo he is saying an official exclamation on Church doctrine made by an Apostle is wrong.

If he goes with Packer he is saying that what Jo believes is wrong.

At the moment Frank seems to be hedging his bets by intimating they are both right!

You still have not read and understood what I have posted. But let me add that I am not the keeper of truth so don't come to me for answers seek another. The same can be said of any man on earth. Whether a prophet or an apostle they are not the keeper of truth. They are men and as such are prone to error. This is the world we live in. Anyone who expects perfection in men or the world will be disappointed. Everything said by men must be checked by prayer. Any statement made in one context will be heard in another. This is the world we live in. What you see as obvious and simple logic is not in reality the whole picture. You are attempting to weave an idea from a sea of ideas and then tell me that it is the only way to view this sea of ideas. How silly is that.

Got it.

Packer wrong, Jo right.
(wise choice)

[_Themis]

From the outside the spiritual experience does seem a jumbled mess.

I am not coming from the outside since I have had what I call spiritual experiences. I understand many think their spiritual expereeince is clear to what meaning they get from them. The jumbled mess comes later when we get them all together.

It has to be or else it would be proof of God.

This looks more to be an excuse for why they can't provide evidence. It also explains why faith in God's existence is the main focus instead of faith in God.

They have not cast off the world before asking for the Holy Ghost.

This make a huge assumption people who disagree with you have never cast of the world, but I would be interested in what you define as casting of the world in your own words.

[_moksha]

To borrow from the Song of Peace from Finlandia Anthem:

My Church is truer than the ocean,
and sunlight beams on cloverleaf and pine;
but other churches have sunlight too, and clover,
and churches everywhere are as true as mine:
O hear my post, thou readers of this thread,
a song of peace for their church and for mine.

[_Franktalk]

Rain falls on the just and the unjust. So will God's blessings go where He guides them regardless of how a person is connected or not to the LDS church?

I am a student of the Old Testament and see how the Temple was central to the Jews. But I don't recall much being said about those who entered the Temple and any special blessings being received there. The sacrifices were offered for sin and many ceremonies were performed. But people offered to God outside the Temple as well. I think this is true today.

[_PrickKicker]

The LDS Church is NOT the only "Un-True" church!

They have all the other Churches to thank for their contributions to their policies and doctrines.

Where would Joseph be without The Jews, Roman Catholicism, The Anglicans, Martin Luther, John Wesley?
Without them he wouldn't have been able to cut and paste huge chunks of the Torah / Bible into his own version of the Bible.
Or Baptise by immersion.

[_Drifting]

Rain falls on the just and the unjust. So will God's blessings go where He guides them regardless of how a person is connected or not to the LDS church?

So, membership of any Church is irrevelevant. God will bless whoever the hell He likes, whenever the hell He likes, wherever the hell He likes.

Got it.

(you know you don't believe in Mormonism, right?)