The LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church!

[_jo1952]

The common experience to which I refer is for anyone who has dilegently sought their calling and election. Basically one is dragged down to hell and back.

My understanding of your situation is that you are fairly new to the church, and were likely not seeking your calling and election. Is this true?

Jo, I assume you're seeking your calling and election correct?

Hi RockSlider!

Actually, I have never consciously sought to have my calling and election made sure. I have only hungered to have more and more Truth to be revealed to me....although I suppose they could be considered as the same thing. I just want to know All Truth --- I want to be able to purely love others; and thus be able to purely love God. I want to return to my spiritual Home. I have been "Home" sick my entire life. But I want everyone else to come with me. So I try to remember to ask God to guide my thoughts and words whenever I post in the hopes that I may be of service to Him for His purposes.

Blessings,

jo

[_jo1952]

Just a general question.

Back around 120 BC Alma performed baptisms. By what authority did he do this? Who gave him the keys? By what authority did he make priest for the church?

By what authority did John the Baptist baptize? or did Jesus Christ heal the sick and perform the miracles he did?

Mormons often have this concept that one must be set apart by men. This is absurd. To have the authority (or priesthood of God), one must be anointed by God to do such thing. It is by his authority that such things are done. Men should never pretend to have such authority unless God tells them they have such authority and are to do such things.

Exactly Tobin!!! And as I see it, there are many different keys to the kingdom. The power and authority to baptize by water is only one of those keys. It would be absurd to think that God would only supply a single set of keys for His entire Kingdom for any single purpose. We have to stop placing God inside of a man-made box!!! When Alma held the key to the power and authority of water baptism, Jesus hadn't even been born in the flesh yet! The Nephites continued to hold that authority even at the same time as John the Baptist held it. So, we can see that there is more than one key floating around which holds the power and authority to baptize by water!

If there is more than one key around for baptism by water, why would God have a different set of rules about other keys to other ordinances??

Blessings,

jo

[_jo1952]

We were taught that if the prophets of the church spoke it, it was as if God had spoken it, and no it was not because Joseph Smith did it, it was because Joseph Smith taught that we should and could do it for ourselves. Again, I see that you just don't connect with old school and what I knew of mystic Mormonism. I don't get your being a part of it?

Hi RockSlider,

I'm not sure where Frank is going with this; but I thought I would point out that having your calling and election made sure is not a teaching unique to the LDS Church. Peter also taught about this. Since Joseph Smith Restored the "present truth" (also spoken about by Peter), it would make sense that Joseph would also teach it.

by the way, don't feel alone in trying to figure out what Frank may be talking about. His brain thinks faster than his typing and/or his words are able to keep up with.

Blessings,

jo

[_Franktalk]

And yet, now you are Mormon, which should imply that you would also follow the prophets. This is what I don't get about you.

I follow the Holy Ghost. If the Holy Ghost tells me the LDS prophet is speaking for God then I will take those words as if God spoke them. But each statement needs to be verified. The scripture is ripe with prophets that speak for God one moment and speak for them self the next. You should know this. We also make sure that what was said does not conflict with scripture.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily whether those things were so.

By your asking this, I'm not sure that you understand what the teaching even is?

I know that to make ones election sure we are to follow the commandments and keep our faith. Just as the Pharisees of old added a man made burden to the Jews I believe there have been attempts in all churches to do the same.

We were taught that if the prophets of the church spoke it, it was as if God had spoken it, and no it was not because Joseph Smith did it, it was because Joseph Smith taught that we should and could do it for ourselves. Again, I see that you just don't connect with old school and what I knew of mystic Mormonism. I don't get your being a part of it?

The problem I have with some Mormons is they have a devotion to church leaders instead of a devotion to God. Church leaders are tools of God as are we. Everything they say we must check to see if it is true. If we don't place God first God will turn His face from the church. This has happened before and it will happen again if the members turn to leadership without checking with God. This is so simple as a structure. God first, members are servants of God, leaders are servants of the members and God. Yes we follow the leaders so that order is maintained but all statements of doctrine must be checked with scripture and verified by the Holy Ghost. We can not assume just because a man holds a position that he speaks for God. That is a leap I will not make.

There was a time that yes, I would have.

And your belief would have been counted for righteousness. Saul who became Paul believed the leaders of the Jews and he read the scriptures. He was counted as righteous for his beliefs. But some of his beliefs changed when he obtained a direct communication link with God. We are all Saul if we do not communicate with God directly. How many in the church are as Saul? I know many. But their beliefs are counted for righteousness and their beliefs are close in doctrine and the core gospel is solid. I don't need to fix something that is not broken.

[_RockSlider]

Actually, I have never consciously sought to have my calling and election made sure. I have only hungered to have more and more Truth to be revealed to me....although I suppose they could be considered as the same thing. I just want to know All Truth --- I want to be able to purely love others; and thus be able to purely love God. I want to return to my spiritual Home. I have been "Home" sick my entire life. But I want everyone else to come with me. So I try to remember to ask God to guide my thoughts and words whenever I post in the hopes that I may be of service to Him for His purposes.

Blessings,

jo

Hey Jo .. I'm 55

Of course one's calling and election is really all about seeing the face of the Lord.

D&C
93:1 Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am;
93:19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.

And of course the Oath and Covenant is all about this:
D&C 84
19 And this greater apriesthood administereth the gospel and holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom, even the key of the knowledge of God.
20 Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.
21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;
22 For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.
23 Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;

Its all about aproaching the burning bush.

[Guest]

...

[_Drifting]

Frank wrote:

The problem I have with some Mormons is they have a devotion to church leaders instead of a devotion to God. Church leaders are tools of God as are we. Everything they say we must check to see if it is true. If we don't place God first God will turn His face from the church. This has happened before and it will happen again if the members turn to leadership without checking with God. This is so simple as a structure. God first, members are servants of God, leaders are servants of the members and God. Yes we follow the leaders so that order is maintained but all statements of doctrine must be checked with scripture and verified by the Holy Ghost. We can not assume just because a man holds a position that he speaks for God. That is a leap I will not make.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(sorry had problem with quoteing what I wanted)
I wrote:

This is why Jesus said he is in us not in a church building.
We must always rely on our own Judgement ... for as soon as we turn it over to others , what really is the purpose for us to live our life? We might as well be erased ... atleast that way we wont make the wrong choices. If that infact is what its all about.
Plus life shows us time and time again , the lesson learned through experience is always more meaningful than the one learned through curriculum.

Why does Mormonism have different grades of Church?
Is Jesus more with us in the Temple where we have paid 10% of our income to 'feel' Him with us, rather than the local Chapel where we get to 'feel' the discounted version of Jesus?

[_subgenius]

Why does Mormonism have different grades of Church?
Is Jesus more with us in the Temple where we have paid 10% of our income to 'feel' Him with us, rather than the local Chapel where we get to 'feel' the discounted version of Jesus?

yes, why is that so difficult for you to understand.
The scriptures are full of examples of milk before meat "gradation" and "hierarchy" and "good-better-best"....what exactly do you fell like you have figured out?

Even Jesus explains this simple notion of "grades"
Matthew 13:10-11
And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

in other words some people get it. some people don't.....pretty clear where you stand at this point

[_Drifting]

subgenius, I expected better from you than the 'milk before meat' defence.
Actually, come to think of it, I didn't.

Anywho, can you explain why Mormonism gets it's members to agree to a series of covenants before they know what those covenants are?

[_subgenius]

...before they know what those covenants are?

CFR