Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

[_LittleNipper]

With that said, I am very happy to believe that the Great Flood of Noah actually happen just as the Bible states. Without a doubt, there is detail missing from the story; however, all that was needed for the believer to know has been provided exactly as God wished it to be. More information is of no influence to those who are unrepentant.

[_ludwigm]

Come now ...

Beautiful sermon.
For those who like this.

I don't. A dime a dozen.

in the big picture

I am sorry, I have no pictures.

Neither big, no small ones. All of my pictures is my avatar.

[_Drifting]

Is that really Celestial dialogue? I think not.

Come now, when a tool of the godless army gets called out it is a breath of fresh air. I am very definite with my comments of faith. I try and describe how I feel and what I believe. If I feel that someone on this board is a fool I will treat them as such. For far to long this society has coddled the idiots and told them that they too are just normal. We now have a whole generation of sick twisted people who believe they are normal. If you wish to treat the insane as sane that is up to you. I will call an idiot an idiot. I have had hundreds of respectful chats with atheist and self declared pagans. We write about our beliefs and why we feel that way. We ask questions of each other. But there are lowlife jerks who also inhabit this sites. They are weak in the mind and controlled by self gratification. Their goal is to raise them self up by stepping on others. Their goal is to destroy the faith that others may have. They are a cancer that needs a little sunshine. They are like a fly that normally you brush aside, but sometimes you bring the swatter out. Then they get their way and the track of a tread is dismantled. We end up talking in circles about nothing and ignore the subject of the thread. Just writing you about this fool will bring gladness to his heart because his goal of distraction in his eyes has been successful. Where he sees that you and I have fallen into his trap what has actually happened is that a light was shone on him and his tactics. And in the big picture it is worth it to stop and identify fools as fools every once in a while.

I'm not sure that's what your Christ meant when he said you were to love your neighbour...
May I suggest you re read your Bible and this time, pay attention to what Christ is trying to teach you about how you should behave towards others.

[_just me]

Is that really Celestial dialogue? I think not.

Come now, when a tool of the godless army gets called out it is a breath of fresh air. I am very definite with my comments of faith. I try and describe how I feel and what I believe. If I feel that someone on this board is a fool I will treat them as such. For far to long this society has coddled the idiots and told them that they too are just normal. We now have a whole generation of sick twisted people who believe they are normal. If you wish to treat the insane as sane that is up to you. I will call an idiot an idiot. I have had hundreds of respectful chats with atheist and self declared pagans. We write about our beliefs and why we feel that way. We ask questions of each other. But there are lowlife jerks who also inhabit this sites. They are weak in the mind and controlled by self gratification. Their goal is to raise them self up by stepping on others. Their goal is to destroy the faith that others may have. They are a cancer that needs a little sunshine. They are like a fly that normally you brush aside, but sometimes you bring the swatter out. Then they get their way and the track of a tread is dismantled. We end up talking in circles about nothing and ignore the subject of the thread. Just writing you about this fool will bring gladness to his heart because his goal of distraction in his eyes has been successful. Where he sees that you and I have fallen into his trap what has actually happened is that a light was shone on him and his tactics. And in the big picture it is worth it to stop and identify fools as fools every once in a while.

Then take it to the lower kingdoms. This forum (Celestial) is not the place.

The Celestial Forum
The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only.

[_LittleNipper]

With that said, I am very happy to believe that the Great Flood of Noah actually happen just as the Bible states. Without a doubt, there is detail missing from the story; however, all that was needed for the believer to know has been provided exactly as God wished it to be. More information is of no influence to those who are unrepentant.

"So, why don't you wish to believe that the Flood happened," I said.

[_Drifting]

With that said, I am very happy to believe that the Great Flood of Noah actually happen just as the Bible states. Without a doubt, there is detail missing from the story; however, all that was needed for the believer to know has been provided exactly as God wished it to be. More information is of no influence to those who are unrepentant.

"So, why don't you wish to believe that the Flood happened," I said.

I don't think that it's the detail missing from the story that's the biggest challenge to its historicity. It's the complete lack of corroboration.
People who believe in the flood as a literal historic event based on the Bible are like people who believe in Hogwarts as a literal historic placed based on the Harry Potter books.

[_ludwigm]

People who believe in the flood as a literal historic event based on the Bible are like people who believe in Hogwarts as a literal historic placed based on the Harry Potter books.

I agree. Hogwarts (and School of Witchcraft and Wizardry) doesn't exists. I didn't read Harry Potter books because I am anti-harrypotterist.

Then again, Middle-earth does exist.
As part of Arda.

(FYI Arda was part of Eä, the universe of all which exists. Arda was created, together with the rest of Eä, through the Music of the Ainur for the Children of Ilúvatar (that is, Elves and Men). Arda was considered earth itself.)

[_bcuzbcuz]

"So, why don't you wish to believe that the Flood happened,"

?? It has absolutely Nothing to do with "wish to believe" or not wishing to believe. Wishing to believe in a global flood is as effective as wishing to believe I'm a millionaire. I can imagine it all I want but it still Ain't gonna happen.

The Torah was written sometime between 600 BCE and 400 BCE, long after any Noah ever existed, long after any Moses ever existed, long after any Adam ever existed. Until it was written down, it was merely an oral story, repeated innumerable times and changed in incalculable ways. The Torah was written in response to the Babylonian exile and to a people who were in need of some boastful and outrageous claims, to make a disenfranchised people feel good about their predicament.

The Torah wasn't even called the Books of Moses until the writings of Joshua and Kings and later when they were incorporated into the Old Testament alongside the New Testament sometime around 350 CE.

Even today, scholars can get their brains in a knot as to whether a scripture means one thing or another. A simple rule like "Thou shalt not kill", which I feel is rather straightforward, can spawn volumes of work arguing for and against various points of view.

Add to this that NOT A SINGLE PIECE of EVIDENCE (sorry, excuse my shouting...I sometimes get carried away) supports a global flood, despite what the Bible says, the conclusion is that the story of the global flood was a made up story, a fable, a fisherman's tale, an out and out lie.

[_Franktalk]

Add to this that NOT A SINGLE PIECE of EVIDENCE (sorry, excuse my shouting...I sometimes get carried away) supports a global flood, despite what the Bible says, the conclusion is that the story of the global flood was a made up story, a fable, a fisherman's tale, an out and out lie.

And just how do you know that you are seeing everything around you correctly? You assume that what you see today is how things were in the days of Noah. You refuse to consider that events in the past could unfold in ways that don't match what you see today. This whole area of thought of geology started in the late 1700's and was made popular by Charles Lyell in the 1830's. So all of your thoughts on this matter rest on the accuracy of this assumption. So you declaring a lie is based on your assumption being correct. Even to the point of declaring anyone who disagrees with you a liar. But what if events of the past did not follow what we see today? Would this change the way trace evidence is examined? Sure it would. But how would we know that events were different and how would we then interpret the evidence? We would need a record of the events. Direct observation. We do not have this. So the best we have is indirect evidence which is based on assumptions.

What I just described was all predicted by Peter many years ago.

2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

These would be people who do not have faith but instead wrap them self with the world and only believe that which is before them. They are people like Thomas who would not believe unless he stuck his hand into the wounds of Christ. They refuse to consider the unseen and they refuse to consider that the past could be any different than today because they need to see it in order to believe it.

2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Peter is saying that these scoffers use an assumption that all things continue as they were from the beginning. This is the assumption of Charles Lyell and has been adopted by science. It is called uniformitarianism and it is assumed correct.

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished.

So Peter is declaring these scoffers ignorant. Just as Thomas was ignorant. Thomas needed physical proof. He would not take the word of his fellow apostles. In the same light many on the earth do not take the Word of God as truth. They also require to stick their fingers in the wounds of Jesus. They assume that the past and the present are the same. But the world before the flood was reshaped and the entire universe was changed by the Word of God. A supernatural event which lays outside the boundary of science. We have no reference to examine such an event. We have no clue as to how the physical world is affected by miracles. The whole earth was reshaped by the Word of God and it was so dramatic that the earth that was perished. There is no way that man would be able to reconstruct the past in any meaningful way. In this they are willingly ignorant.

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The same Word of God which changed the earth is now keeping the earth reserved. This means that events are being held within tight bounds by the Word of God. Men have misinterpreted this supernatural stasis as natural. They assume that this stasis goes back in time to the creation of the universe. They hold these beliefs and declare those of faith ignorant.

How odd it is that this uneducated man could predict the future. So when Peter says that one day fire will consume the ungodly I believe him. But those who rest in the assumption of uniformitarianism deny the flood and deny the words of Christ.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,

For the scoffers are given a chance to believe. They make their choice to believe in the Word of God or the words of man. To those who remain until the last days wrapped in their own lust they will experience first hand that uniformitarianism is not correct. They will discover they had an ignorant faith in men and man's interpretation of nature. So lay your faith out before you and really look it over. Make sure that what you believe will be the best for your soul.

[_PrickKicker]

So, was Pete prophesying or was he trying to fend of the fiery darts of the adversary, that were being fire at him there and then by the saints in his day???

Like Joseph he listened to his critics, and then replied, but because each generation thinks he will come in their day.
we believe the time gets ever closer, we take it as prophecy intended for a future generations.

That is the genius thing about a prophecy about the end of the world, people can hold that revelation as true even if it never happens,
people are held in suspended anticipation.

...Look he even mentioned the recent London Riots!!!

13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the ewages of unrighteousness;

16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man’s voice forbad the madness of the prophet.