Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

[_bcuzbcuz]

suspended anticipation.

"Suspended anticipation." I like it! Can I borrow/steal it?

[_Bret Ripley]

(FYI Arda was part of Eä, the universe of all which exists. Arda was created, together with the rest of Eä, through the Music of the Ainur for the Children of Ilúvatar (that is, Elves and Men). Arda was considered earth itself.)

<sigh> I am way overdue to re-read The Silmarillion.

[_Franktalk]

So, was Pete prophesying or was he trying to fend of the fiery darts of the adversary, that were being fire at him there and then by the saints in his day???

This is late in Peter's life after he has made many mistakes. It was Christ who said that Peter would walk in his own desires until he was old. And when he was old he would walk where he was told. So his later writings are pretty solid but his early actions were all suspect. Scripture is quite clear on this matter.

Peter knew he would die soon and was leaving a message for his flock and for future generations.

[_bcuzbcuz]

And just how do you know that you are seeing everything around you correctly? You assume that what you see today is how things were in the days of Noah. You refuse to consider that events in the past could unfold in ways that don't match what you see today. This whole area of thought of geology started in the late 1700's and was made popular by Charles Lyell in the 1830's. So all of your thoughts on this matter rest on the accuracy of this assumption. So you declaring a lie is based on your assumption being correct. Even to the point of declaring anyone who disagrees with you a liar. But what if events of the past did not follow what we see today? Would this change the way trace evidence is examined? Sure it would. But how would we know that events were different and how would we then interpret the evidence? We would need a record of the events. Direct observation. We do not have this. So the best we have is indirect evidence which is based on assumptions.

Oh, Frank, Frank, Frank. You're back to your non-constant preogression of earthly events, such as the changing speed of light, speeded up erosion of earth and a shrunken planet that is swelling like a balloon. All of which you have nothing more than supposition and wanting the rest of us to admit that we can't exclude these whacky allternatives as possibilities. Much like the alternative solutions provided for the OJ Simpson trial...that the jury was not to exclude the possibility that the murders were committed by an insane extra-terrestial?

Put your thinking cap on and review the following scriptures:

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"

"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"

"Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 96:10)"

"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"

"He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)"

"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:4)"

that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"

"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"

"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"

"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"


"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 40:22)"

"So the best we have is indirect evidence which is based on assumptions." You really believe this? You mean when you plug your toaster in, in the morning, you truly expect any myriad of possible outcomes? When a volcano is about to explode, do you suggest we go back to throwing some young virgins into the fire to placate the gods? It might work, right? Just because the sun stood still for a day in the Old Testament, you fully expect it to do so again.....without causing a catastrophe of planetary imbalance?

For the scoffers are given a chance to believe. They make their choice to believe in the Word of God or the words of man. To those who remain until the last days wrapped in their own lust they will experience first hand that uniformitarianism is not correct. They will discover they had an ignorant faith in men and man's interpretation of nature. So lay your faith out before you and really look it over. Make sure that what you believe will be the best for your soul.

I await with open arms the last days you speak of. Just give me a five minute warning so I can get my balloons and fireworks ready, in order to celebrate.

[_PrickKicker]

This is late in Peter's life after he has made many mistakes. It was Christ who said that Peter would walk in his own desires until he was old. And when he was old he would walk where he was told. So his later writings are pretty solid but his early actions were all suspect. Scripture is quite clear on this matter.

Peter knew he would die soon and was leaving a message for his flock and for future generations.

Once words have left the mouth or been written on paper it's pretty obvious its intended for future that is how time works.
and therefore all words from everyone could be considered Prophecy.

So What I am saying is religious prophecy in general is either extremely far fetched symbology as in the case of Revelations, which is based on fantasy.
Or it is pretty mundane stuff based on what is happening in your day.

Anyone can say:
people are going to fall away from the church, no longer be satisfied with drops of milk they are suckling from the proverbial teats of the church, and starved of real sustenance, will turn into ferocious beasts with the desire to bite chunks of flesh from its mothers rotten corpse.

Is that a prophecy?
Does that make me a prophet?
Because I have made a judgement based on my beliefs and observations of today, and written here for someone to read tomorrow?

Like a setting targets or goals they are meaningless unless they are achievable and in a given time scale.
Hence....

Prophecies about the end of the world here and now are useless to us, if it is not going to happen in our day and if it is, then be more specific.

people are held in suspended anticipation.

I believe that the GAs of the church have danced around fundamental issues, whilst undeservedly enjoying the honour, love and respect and also fame and fortune of the title 'Prophet, Seer and Revelator.'
They are burying those talents in the ground and not putting them to good use.

When was the last time someone in this position predicted or produced a supernatural miracle?
Joseph Smith?

What good is the title today?

[_Drifting]

I prophecy that it will rain in England in October 2012 (but not enough to flood the earth).

[_subgenius]

It's the complete lack of corroboration..

"To strengthen or support with other evidence; make more certain"
so, anything without corroboration is something you will not believe?

corroborated by three credible witnesses = believable...got it!

[_subgenius]

I prophecy that it will rain in England in October 2012 (but not enough to flood the earth).

you and kicker are obviously struggling with the difference between prophecy and prediction.
a common error with posts that seemingly have a cursory understanding of either word.

[_Drifting]

I prophecy that it will rain in England in October 2012 (but not enough to flood the earth).

you and kicker are obviously struggling with the difference between prophecy and prediction.
a common error with posts that seemingly have a cursory understanding of either word.

But you can furnish us with a clarification on the difference, right?

[_SteelHead]

Clarification, yes. Proof, no.