PrickKicker wrote:Frank: thank you, I want desperately to believe in a supreme being, but cannot bring myself to believe in anything less convincing than the LDS church, until I have proof. Some one asking me to 'have Faith,' to me is just a religious con-man's way of saying 'Trust me.'
I understand the need for evidence before one makes a leap of faith. For me I took that leap when I was studying QM. I came to realize that this world is a subset of something much more powerful but unseen. I realized that this world exist at the mercy of another greater reality. I started to look at the laws of nature in a different light. We observe actions and reactions but at some level we lose the reason why and just accept nature as we see it. We lose cause and effect tied to some mechanics. We can't see the detail as to why one way and not another. We then trust what we observe and call it nature. But if we observed something different then that thing would be nature. I saw our definition resting on observation but nothing else. Things lacked reason they just were the way they were. I studied the various attempts to describe unification. I saw the need to add more and more dimensions to the theories as support for those dimensions. But what if those dimensions were not rolled up and small but dimensionally larger than this one. These kind of mind experiments led me to suppose that intelligent life could exist in expanded space. I studied the Bible to see if I could find a purpose for this framework I had made in my head. I also was trying to find if these creatures described in scripture fit my framework. But because I had cast off this reality (cast off this world) as I read the Bible I found much more than I was looking for. I started to be attacked by demonic spirits trying to stop me from learning scripture. I had very strange worldly events happen that seemed coordinated to stop me and return to the world. All this did was convince me that I was on the right track and I bushed all of those distractions aside. The demonic spirits verified that indeed there are intelligent creatures that exist outside normal space. I struggled for a while but was guided to where I am today. So I am like most people who refuse to believe but my quest for understanding drove me here. There is no going back. That to me would be like denying reality.
Franktalk wrote:I understand the need for evidence before one makes a leap of faith. For me I took that leap when I was studying QM. I came to realize that this world is a subset of something much more powerful but unseen. I realized that this world exist at the mercy of another greater reality. I started to look at the laws of nature in a different light. We observe actions and reactions but at some level we lose the reason why and just accept nature as we see it. We lose cause and effect tied to some mechanics. We can't see the detail as to why one way and not another. We then trust what we observe and call it nature. But if we observed something different then that thing would be nature. I saw our definition resting on observation but nothing else. Things lacked reason they just were the way they were. I studied the various attempts to describe unification. I saw the need to add more and more dimensions to the theories as support for those dimensions. But what if those dimensions were not rolled up and small but dimensionally larger than this one. These kind of mind experiments led me to suppose that intelligent life could exist in expanded space. I studied the Bible to see if I could find a purpose for this framework I had made in my head. I also was trying to find if these creatures described in scripture fit my framework. But because I had cast off this reality (cast off this world) as I read the Bible I found much more than I was looking for. I started to be attacked by demonic spirits trying to stop me from learning scripture. I had very strange worldly events happen that seemed coordinated to stop me and return to the world. All this did was convince me that I was on the right track and I bushed all of those distractions aside. The demonic spirits verified that indeed there are intelligent creatures that exist outside normal space. I struggled for a while but was guided to where I am today. So I am like most people who refuse to believe but my quest for understanding drove me here. There is no going back. That to me would be like denying reality.
Really?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
What specifically did you experience that you believe was demonic intervention?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Drifting wrote:What specifically did you experience that you believe was demonic intervention?
Everyone experiences demonic intervention of one sort or another. Most are so subtle so you would not know. But when someone is on a path that they don't want you to go on they may actually manifest. It is rare but I know of a few and have read about many. I will not go into detail. It would be a waste of my time. You see I know you.
Drifting wrote:What specifically did you experience that you believe was demonic intervention?
Everyone experiences demonic intervention of one sort or another. Most are so subtle so you would not know. But when someone is on a path that they don't want you to go on they may actually manifest. It is rare but I know of a few and have read about many. I will not go into detail. It would be a waste of my time. You see I know you.
Actually you clearly don't know me. How would I recognise that I had experienced a demonic intervention of the sort you are saying you experienced (whatever that is because you won't say)?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
LittleNipper wrote: What would one expect to find 4 to 5 thousand years after a world wide flood? Fossils everywhere --- certainly. Multiple geologic layers of sediment ----- absolutely. Areas wept clean of vegetation and left to become arid wasteland --- frankly yes. Continued earthquakes because of cracked and buckled tetonic plates --- be a fool not to imagine so. Canyons gouged out by standing water runoff --- nothing less. Need one go on? The simple fact is, that the mind that will not accept the Flood simply creates "rational" explanations that fit some other expectation. And where was this developed? By secularists and atheists outside the universities. The christians that reject the Flood simply do not wish to seem less than "modern" in their thinking. Everyone loves an atheist. They can be the social life of the party.
You need not go on since all you have said is incorrect and shows lack of understanding, but then you did say you would ignore everything but the Bible and those who trumpet your views. Who really has the agenda here.
Drifting wrote:So...how does God make His divine communication clearly distinct for you?
just by you asking such a question illuminates your motive, and due to a lack of true inquiry on your part i will kindly not offer an answer.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
Drifting wrote:So...how does God make His divine communication clearly distinct for you?
just by you asking such a question illuminates your motive, and due to a lack of true inquiry on your part i will kindly not offer an answer.
You don't really know, do you...?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator