Drifting - what does he believe/not believe...?

[_Drifting]

On another thread, in a slightly desperate attempt to avoid backing up his testimony with actual information and substance, Franktalk issued this challenge:

All I am asking is that Drifting give us a description of his beliefs and why he holds those beliefs. He asks us to provide detail about our beliefs all of the time. Does anyone else think that Drifting is rather silent right now? I mean he acts all sure of himself and what he believes. So why does he not lay it all out for us to see? Is he ashamed of his beliefs? Does he even know what they are? Let us have some data Drifting so we can start chatting about what you believe.

I think he did so believing that I wouldn't share and so justifying his own lack of personal candour. Franktalk doesn't know me very well.

I would think that most regular posters on this board would, by now, have reached a fair assessment of me and where I sit on a lot of subjects. But, for the purpose of shoving Frantalks challenge right back at him so that everyone can then hold him up to light of scrutiny when he posts his own brand of spiritualist mumbo jumbo, here goes:

1. God
I have no idea wether God exists or not and I'm okay with not knowing and not worrying about not knowing. If there is a God, of some description, He and I will have a chat after I'm dead. I'll deal with that then. I will also have some questions for Him that He may find difficult to answer.
I believe that if God does exist then He does nothing to interfere physically with this life. I cannot accept belief in an all powerful God who chooses to allow His children to be sexually abused as part of mankind's learning process towards a greater good.

2. Religion
I believe religion is mankind's mechanism for dealing with its collective fear of death. It's a comfort blanket, actually it's lots of different comfort blankets based on a cultures self-developed moral view. Religion is a dangerous thing, it empowers people to control others in an insidious way. It is a mechanism for self aggrandisement and abuse of others, all under the pretence of doing what 'God' wants. Religion is a barrier to human co-operation and advancement. You only have to revisit Mountain Meadows, the Crusades, 9/11 etc to see the horrible effects that religion has on individuals thinking and behaviour.
Religion breeds discrimination and exclusion rather than equality and inclusion.
Equality and inclusion are the most positive traits of human advancement. You only have to look at the Paralympics to see what can be achieved when mankind looks for ways to include people who used to be excluded and shunned. In fact, some of those athletes winning medals and competing would, even today, be considered by 'Religion' of being; possessed of the devil; punished for sins in a previous life; deserving of special challenges.

3. Mormonism
I believe Mormonism is a cult. Nothing within the religion has been necessary in terms of human advancement either morally or physically. I believe the most damning aspect of Mormonism is its inability to tell the truth; its inability to recognise and deal with its own failings and to say 'sorry'. Mormonism as an organisation does not display the traits it teaches members are important to God. That makes it two-faced and I believe it cheats people into being baptised.
I say this because when you are baptised you do not know everything that you need to know to make an informed decision. Joining Mormonism is like buying a car without knowing how much you will be expected to pay, what licences you will need, what fuel it takes and how much that fuel costs etc. It's a con job.
I believe Mormonism has some very good people as members, but no more so than the local social club.

4. The Bible
I believe the Bible is a collection of handed down tales and stories and fables. Mixed with some journal style writing of some people from history. I believe people today interpret the Bible to add credibility to views, beliefs and opinions that they already hold. It's a story book, in the same way that Lord of the Rings is a story book. In fact, in a few millennia, humans may well believe LOTR is a historic account of God's Prophets.

5. Supernatural/Spirtualism
I believe that we really do not fully understand what the human body's physical and physiological systems are capable of. I do not believe in ghosts, angels, heavenly messengers, internal promptings by a supernatural being. I think claims of supernatural and spiritual experiences may well feel real to the individuals, but they aren't from external sources. People pursuing the spiritual and supernatural and things of the next life are people running away/hiding from living a full This Life.

6. Summary
I guess I can summarise by saying I believe that we should concentrate on living this life and worry about the next when/if we get to it. I enjoy discussing the religion I was brought up in. I find it controversial. I find it entertaining and fun.

I believe in live and let live within the confines of the law of the land. But I also believe that the law of the land shouldn't stand still. The human race changes and therefore, so should the system that has been developed to allow us to rise above the survival of the fittest system we once operated within.
I am never down or depressed. I am always happy. I believe in looking on the bright side. I believe I am a bit contrary, a bit fickle, sometimes a bit acerbic. I believe in not holding my views and opinions and beliefs too tightly because they change. They have changed and they will change in the future (I reserve the right to change my position at any point on the things within this post!). I believe as we experience and learn new things about the world around us, beliefs should evolve. I'm okay with that. I'm okay with people showing me where and when I'm not right, when and where I'm out of order. I've been held to account on this board on a number of occasions and when I've been wrong I've said so and apologised.

I believe we should enjoy life - we're not here for a long time, we're here for a good time!

[_PrickKicker]

Wow, so many truths that I can relate to, Apart from 911. I believe rightly or wrongly, it was an inside job, due to my understanding of Physics and actual video footage.
(Don't try and compare this type of belief to religion as it is also based on ACTUAL VIDEO FOOTAGE, not just what I have read in a book and a gut feeling.

[_Franktalk]

2. Religion
I believe religion is mankind's mechanism for dealing with its collective fear of death.

Do you fear death Drifting?

[_Drifting]

2. Religion
I believe religion is mankind's mechanism for dealing with its collective fear of death.

Do you fear death Drifting?

I don't want to die, but that's more out of missing life rather than fearing death.
I don't fear whatever's next because it will either be something (and I will deal with that when I'm faced with it) or it's the big sleep and I'll have no worries at all.

[_subgenius]

1. God
I have no idea wether God exists or not and I'm okay with not knowing and not worrying about not knowing. If there is a God, of some description, He and I will have a chat after I'm dead. I'll deal with that then. I will also have some questions for Him that He may find difficult to answer.

so, you don't know anything about Him, don't care to know anything about Him.....but....you conclude that He may find your questions difficult to answer?.....hmmmm, how contrary of you.

I believe that if God does exist then He does nothing to interfere physically with this life. I cannot accept belief in an all powerful God who chooses to allow His children to be sexually abused as part of mankind's learning process towards a greater good.

So, you prefer a Totalitarian style of divinity. Your problem with God is that He allows to much free will, too much free agency, too much free choice...and all this freedom is bad for humanity...because freedom equals molestation...got it!
You really have not stated a belief here, but rather simply stated a disbelief.

2. Religion
I believe religion is mankind's mechanism for dealing with its collective fear of death. It's a comfort blanket, actually it's lots of different comfort blankets based on a cultures self-developed moral view.

i think you confuse "not wanting to die" with a "fear of dying".
If there is a "collective" fear of death then why oppose a "collective" love for life?

Religion is a dangerous thing, it empowers people to control others in an insidious way. It is a mechanism for self aggrandisement and abuse of others, all under the pretence of doing what 'God' wants. Religion is a barrier to human co-operation and advancement. You only have to revisit Mountain Meadows, the Crusades, 9/11 etc to see the horrible effects that religion has on individuals thinking and behaviour.
Religion breeds discrimination and exclusion rather than equality and inclusion.

these behaviors are seen in and outside of organized religion and inclusive and exclusive of religion....you are promoting a false cause.
You really have not stated a belief here, but rather simply stated a disbelief.

Equality and inclusion are the most positive traits of human advancement. You only have to look at the Paralympics to see what can be achieved when mankind looks for ways to include people who used to be excluded and shunned.

actually they are "excluded" from the olympics...that is why there is a seperate games for them...even by your posts you are "distinguishing" them from others...your example is supportive of exclusion, not inclusion.

In fact, some of those athletes winning medals and competing would, even today, be considered by 'Religion' of being; possessed of the devil; punished for sins in a previous life; deserving of special challenges.

I see you judge religions by their behavior centuries ago - and the "fact" is that it was not only religions that viewed them that way...it was everyone. Even in nonreligious societies you will see people shunned for not having qualities or traits that are not "socially acceptable".
Obviously you are transposing your own anti-social tendencies upon various social aspects...which is understandable...it is a common phase that most people go through as they mature and "find themselves".

3. Mormonism
I believe Mormonism is a cult. Nothing within the religion has been necessary in terms of human advancement either morally or physically. I believe the most damning aspect of Mormonism is its inability to tell the truth; its inability to recognise and deal with its own failings and to say 'sorry'. Mormonism as an organisation does not display the traits it teaches members are important to God. That makes it two-faced and I believe it cheats people into being baptised.
I say this because when you are baptised you do not know everything that you need to know to make an informed decision. Joining Mormonism is like buying a car without knowing how much you will be expected to pay, what licences you will need, what fuel it takes and how much that fuel costs etc. It's a con job.
I believe Mormonism has some very good people as members, but no more so than the local social club.

You really have not stated a belief here, but rather simply stated a disbelief.

4. The Bible
I believe the Bible is a collection of handed down tales and stories and fables. Mixed with some journal style writing of some people from history. I believe people today interpret the Bible to add credibility to views, beliefs and opinions that they already hold. It's a story book, in the same way that Lord of the Rings is a story book. In fact, in a few millennia, humans may well believe LOTR is a historic account of God's Prophets.

Yet you have no evidence to support your belief that the "Bible is a collection of handed down tales and stories and fables" ...which is the very criticism you levy on others who do believe the Bible to be the word of God. The irony is palatable and the hypocrisy is aromatic.
You really have not stated a belief here, but rather simply stated a disbelief.

5. Supernatural/Spirtualism
I believe that we really do not fully understand what the human body's physical and physiological systems are capable of. I do not believe in ghosts, angels, heavenly messengers, internal promptings by a supernatural being. I think claims of supernatural and spiritual experiences may well feel real to the individuals, but they aren't from external sources. People pursuing the spiritual and supernatural and things of the next life are people running away/hiding from living a full This Life.

So, you believe some things are "not yet known" (see also Faith) but you are confident what these "unknown things" can NOT be....and people who disagree with what you deem as "can not be" are running/hiding.....got it?
You really have not stated a belief here, but rather simply stated a disbelief.

6. Summary
I guess I can summarise by saying I believe that we should concentrate on living this life and worry about the next when/if we get to it. I enjoy discussing the religion I was brought up in. I find it controversial. I find it entertaining and fun.

yet you have nothing but disdain for religion, don't respect anyone who follows it, and have-as you noted above- no worry about it....if that is "entertaining and fun" then the truth of that matter is more egocentric than you admit here.

I believe in live and let live within the confines of the law of the land.

contrary statement...either live and let live...or...live by the law of the land.

But I also believe that the law of the land shouldn't stand still. The human race changes and therefore, so should the system that has been developed to allow us to rise above the survival of the fittest system we once operated within.

hmmm smells like, according to you, the law should be derived from some sort of "continuing revelation"....wow, do you have some baggage.

I am never down or depressed. I am always happy. I believe in looking on the bright side. I believe I am a bit contrary, a bit fickle, sometimes a bit acerbic. I believe in not holding my views and opinions and beliefs too tightly because they change. They have changed and they will change in the future (I reserve the right to change my position at any point on the things within this post!). I believe as we experience and learn new things about the world around us, beliefs should evolve. I'm okay with that. I'm okay with people showing me where and when I'm not right, when and where I'm out of order. I've been held to account on this board on a number of occasions and when I've been wrong I've said so and apologised.

glad to see your feet firmly planted in the sand

I believe we should enjoy life - we're not here for a long time, we're here for a good time!

Hedonist...got it!

(see also here)

[_just me]

Great post, Drifting. Not at all surprising to those who have read your posts and "gotten to know you."

[_Franktalk]

I don't want to die, but that's more out of missing life rather than fearing death.
I don't fear whatever's next because it will either be something (and I will deal with that when I'm faced with it) or it's the big sleep and I'll have no worries at all.

So you don't know what you believe. Is there life after death of the flesh or not. A simple statement of belief is all I ask. Not this either or stuff.

[_subgenius]

I don't want to die, but that's more out of missing life rather than fearing death.
I don't fear whatever's next because it will either be something (and I will deal with that when I'm faced with it) or it's the big sleep and I'll have no worries at all.

So you don't know what you believe. Is there life after death of the flesh or not. A simple statement of belief is all I ask. Not this either or stuff.

He/She thought you asked for a statement of "disbelief"

[_Themis]

I don't want to die, but that's more out of missing life rather than fearing death.
I don't fear whatever's next because it will either be something (and I will deal with that when I'm faced with it) or it's the big sleep and I'll have no worries at all.

So you don't know what you believe. Is there life after death of the flesh or not. A simple statement of belief is all I ask. Not this either or stuff.

To many black and white thinkers who think it can only be one or the other. Why cannot someone be uncertain. Agnostics are usually very much uncertain about claims we have no good evidence for like God, Xenu, etc.

[_subgenius]

To many black and white thinkers who think it can only be one or the other. Why cannot someone be uncertain. Agnostics are usually very much uncertain about claims we have no good evidence for like God, Xenu, etc.

"There's a certain kind of scepticism that can't bear uncertainty." - Sheldrake