Which rendition of Malachi do you believe

[_PrickKicker]

Vast Drifting? There are common expressions in all languages. If it is the Spirit speaking through the prophets, then why would you think He would change HIs expressions with each prophet?

Seems to be a vast difference between the God of the Old testament and the God of the new testament.

How come no prophets speak as the Lords mouth piece any more?

Why don't they use the term

"I the Lord this, and I the Lord that?"

"And the Lord has commanded me this, and the Lord has commanded me that?"

Instead Its far more corporate these days...

"We the first presidency and council of the 12 apostles of TCoJCoLDS, Solemnly proclaim..."

Nibley's Leaders to Managers the fatal shift comes to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSjE2Ks38uE

[_ldsfaqs]

Vast Drifting? There are common expressions in all languages. If it is the Spirit speaking through the prophets, then why would you think He would change HIs expressions with each prophet?

Seems to be a vast difference between the God of the Old testament and the God of the new testament.

How come no prophets speak as the Lords mouth piece any more?

Why don't they use the term

"I the Lord this, and I the Lord that?"

"And the Lord has commanded me this, and the Lord has commanded me that?"

Instead Its far more corporate these days...

"We the first presidency and council of the 12 apostles of TCoJCoLDS, Solemnly proclaim..."

Nibley's Leaders to Managers the fatal shift comes to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSjE2Ks38uE

Ya, just so TERRIBLE....!!!

6000 YEARS of Old & New Testament which makes up only SMALL brief segments of those years, and ya those MANY MORE years of just "maintenance" Prophets, men who simply stand as WATCHMEN which is the primary job of a Prophet.

Nope, all those men also were supposed to be saying "thus sayeth the Lord" for 6000 whatever years.

It always fascinates me how every anti-mormon argument is based on a strawman, false assumptions and judgments ignoring important facts to then make a judgement by.

Here's the FACTS so-called intelligent/wise one. Thus saith the Lord Prophets/writings were VERY BRIEF MOMENTS of history. After there were MANY YEARS of Prophets and leaders just guiding the people, and then there would be pretty long Apostasy's, until the next great but brief revelation period.

In other words.... God gives the people time to learn and absorb and their free agency.

Further, the primary job of a Prophet is to be a watchman. Revelations directly being the WORD OF GOD have ALWAYS been brief and great moments.

False expectation false judgment.

[_ldsfaqs]

The Book of Mormon rendition is exactly like KJ Bible

And???

1. You do know that Joseph apparently had a near photographic memory? Thus, when he received a revelation, he would obviously TRANSLATE IT according to his own understanding, as that understanding might apply and fit. Since he already knew the Bible, there would obviously be some direct likeness.

2. What I would like to know is why you ignore the things he did different and changed which has been found in modern scholarship to perfectly fit and be a more accurate translation to historical finds, scriptural scholarship etc.?

3. I would also like to know why you don't care that Christ and everyone else of the New and Old Testament QUOTED verbatim even when God was speaking what had already been written down previously???

Why the hypocrisy, double standards, ignoring of professional scholarship, and unrighteous judgments???

[_Mittens]

The Book of Mormon rendition is exactly like KJ Bible

And???

1. You do know that Joseph apparently had a near photographic memory? Thus, when he received a revelation, he would obviously TRANSLATE IT according to his own understanding, as that understanding might apply and fit. Since he already knew the Bible, there would obviously be some direct likeness.

2. What I would like to know is why you ignore the things he did different and changed which has been found in modern scholarship to perfectly fit and be a more accurate translation to historical finds, scriptural scholarship etc.?

3. I would also like to know why you don't care that Christ and everyone else of the New and Old Testament QUOTED verbatim even when God was speaking what had already been written down previously???

Why the hypocrisy, double standards, ignoring of professional scholarship, and unrighteous judgments???

If Joseph Smith has photographic memory why didn’t he remember where Jesus was born?

Alma 7:
10 And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.

God is Omniscience so he can talk of the future as thou it already happened unlike Joseph Smith Jr

Mik. Chapter 5


The Messiah will be born in Bethlehem—In the last days, the remnant of Jacob will triumph gloriously over the Gentiles.


1 Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek.

2 But thou, Beth-lehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be cruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

[_PrickKicker]

1. You do know that Joseph apparently had a near photographic memory? Thus, when he received a revelation, he would obviously TRANSLATE IT according to his own understanding, as that understanding might apply and fit. Since he already knew the Bible, there would obviously be some direct likeness.

Thank You for your honesty.

[_gdemetz]

Mittens, there was an interesting article a few years back which showed clearly that Joseph Smith's statement that Christ was born "at Jerusalem" was correct! You need to do some more anti Mormon research!

[_Mittens]

Mittens, there was an interesting article a few years back which showed clearly that Joseph Smith's statement that Christ was born "at Jerusalem" was correct! You need to do some more anti Mormon research!

So Micah was wrong

Micah 5
Now gather yourself in troops, O daughter of troops; He has laid siege against us; They will strike the judge of Israel with a rod on the cheek.
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth are from of old, From everlasting.”

Matthew 2

1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem

Matthew 2

1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, 2 saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. 4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.

5 So they said to him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for thus it is written by the prophet:

Luke 2

1 And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. 2 This census first took place while Quirinius was governing Syria. 3 So all went to be registered, everyone to his own city.

4 Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David,

[Guest]

...

[_ldsfaqs]

And???

1. You do know that Joseph apparently had a near photographic memory? Thus, when he received a revelation, he would obviously TRANSLATE IT according to his own understanding, as that understanding might apply and fit. Since he already knew the Bible, there would obviously be some direct likeness.

Cut and paste?

But on the photographic memory , why would he need to employ memory if he's writing that stuff down as he's looking at the golden plates

Because if the the Bible matched well and good enough with what he saw, then that's what he wrote.

and then translateing it verbatim?

Who said anything about "verbatim"???
Since when are two languages translated "verbatim"?
There is no such thing.... When translating something even today with scholars you take one text, take the ideas and then put them into another language so it means the same thing or close as possible to it.

The Book of Mormon wasn't written in English you know. Even the original idea wasn't in English.
Why do you think Joseph didn't re-translate the "lost manuscript"? Because it would be very different from what he first wrote the second time around. Revelation nor translation isn't word for word transmission. It's putting the same ideas into something from another thing.

And I have to say that is the first time I've ever heard of Joseph smith having a photographic memory by the way.
But yet you said it as if it should be common knowledge. Where has this common knowledge been hiding its self?

Most LDS who study the history in depth come away with the view that he had some type of ability as this. It's the same for his leg operation without Anesthesia while young. People who study the history and various other things of humanity and social condition see the correlation to traumatic or major events such as that opening up unique ability's in people that didn't exist before. Thus, it in a "natural" sense is perfectly plausible that Joseph then started seeing things "visions" that others couldn't see, when likewise in general society many other people also develop all kinds of other "talents" and abilities after experiencing some traumatic physical/mental/emotional event. It goes in reverse also, some people become crazy, become serial killers, etc. being that a part of the brain was damaged instead of developing some gift.

[_ldsfaqs]

If Joseph Smith has photographic memory why didn’t he remember where Jesus was born?

Joseph knew very well where Jesus was born. He had been raised on the Bible.

I would recommend you read my college paper on the subject.

http://www.leeuniverse.com/portfolios/p ... h_land.doc

It's to the point, but do a Google search if you want more complex LDS scholarship on the subject such as at FAIR.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon ... _Bethlehem

http://www.shields-research.org/Books/S ... ry_Jer.htm

http://maxwellinstitute.BYU.edu/publica ... ts/?id=127

LDS scholar Hugh Nibley was the first to report on the appearance of the phrase "land of Jerusalem" in the Amarna letters, which were discovered in the late nineteenth century (see his Lehi in the Desert; The World of the Jaredites; There Were Jaredites [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book and FARMS, 1988], 6—7; and An Approach to the Book of Mormon [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book and FARMS, 1988], 101—2).

In 1964 Professor Sidney B. Sperry, a Book of Mormon scholar, observed that the site of Bethlehem (settled later than Jerusalem) was likely considered a part of Jerusalem's political jurisdiction (see his The Problems of the Book of Mormon [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1964], 131—36). These key points of Nibley and Sperry have been abundantly discussed in publications by subsequent scholars.

The recent discovery of a Dead Sea Scroll fragment attributed to Jeremiah (cited earlier in this report), who was a contemporary of Lehi, is further vindication of the use of the phrase "land of Jerusalem" in the Book of Mormon.